[velvet]

Hi IDI
I don’t hear anything shallow in a girl getting a new hairstyle, having her nails done and buying some clothes – it all sounds fabulous to me.
I think you will like the update on your bimbo mode – it will probably feel a lot better than it ever did before – I hope so.
I wonder if the tears are now tears of happiness
Enjoy London, it is an exciting place
Great post
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Tosca
I think it is quite possible that your son would not be allowed into America but ‘If’ he did go, I don’t think it is possible to second guess the outcome.
My own story, of living with an active addiction, came to an unpleasant and difficult end when my son realised that, not only would there be no more enablement but that he had destroyed the ability for us to enable and he left with the parting words ‘I’ll show you’.
He went and sure enough he spiralled down into his addiction until there was nowhere else to go. I would say a lot more within the privacy of a group and I hope maybe you will pop in again sometime soon.
I tell you this, not because I think constantly about my experience but because it has become like a reference library where I can pop in and out having extracted something that hopefully will help you – this was and is the way of ‘my’ recovery.
I imagine, like you, that this scheme is all a bit airy fairy and may come to naught – a typical CG bluff in the hope you try and persuade him to stay and work it out. On-line, so-called friends are, of course, something to be concerned about and maybe this is something you might feel you should talk to him about more seriously than him actually going. What proof has he got of this person’s character? Will he have saved enough money (without your help of course) to extract himself from a problem if the situation, when he gets there, is not as wonderful as it seems. Maybe talking to him more along those lines, more interested in his scheme and less about his addiction might make him think twice. It confuses an addiction when it doesn’t become the primary conversation and sometimes those are times when logic and reason get through. (No guarantees of course!!)
Keep posting
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Jan
I think you have already started doing the right thing for your son’s CGing. You are on a site that understands all you have written and you are being heard.
You imply (forgive me if I get it wrong) that your son leaves home sometimes, possibly with a girlfriend and then when the going gets tough he returns home.
It is/would be incredibly tough for you to tell him next time he wants to return, after having left, that he is not going to find bed and shelter with you. This is possibly the right way forward but as a mother of a CG I know how difficult this is in reality. It is probably easier to say this before he makes his next departure but it is important never to make a threat to a CG that you are not 100% prepared to carry out – empty threats merely encourage a gambling brain to believe that the door will always be open and given time, he will see it as the invitation to carry on gambling regardless.
What age is your son now?
When he struggles to pay his debts does he ask you to cover his debt and if so do you feel that it is something you have to do to save him?
The way forward for an active CG to seek a gamble-free life is first to accept that he has a problem which your son appears to be denying. The next thing would be for him to accept that it is his addiction that is to blame for the mess he is in and for him to take responsibility for that mess, ie., clearing his gambling debts and paying for his board.
When those around CGs clear debts; what they are in effect doing is wiping the problem away leaving the CG without any personal worry, free to indulge their addiction running up further debt. It is a cycle of behaviour that goes on and on and as you have found, gradually gets worse. I am not suggesting that you are enabling in this way but for many parents, including me, this was the only way I thought I would win in the end.
Before I say anymore I want you to know that I know that the addiction to gamble can be controlled or I would not be writing to you – your son has the ability to live a wonderful gamble-free life.
Maybe you could go on the Gamblers Anonymous web site and download the ‘20 Questions’ and leave them where you son can find them. I don’t suggest handing them to him because I would imagine this would end up with an argument over whether or not he had a gambling problem at all. Personally I think it is good when an active CG knows that those around them are seeking help as it is common for a CG to think that they are the only one suffering, when in reality you are both suffering.
This addiction destroys self-esteem and self-confidence in both the CG and those who love them. It is important, I believe, that you never forget that you do not have an addiction and that because you do not own it you are stronger than his addiction.
The addiction to gamble does pull families apart, it is divisive to gain enablement and to this end it often seeks out the closest target. Unity against his addiction (and I stress, not against your son) is the best thing you can all do for your him – maybe have a family chat, without your son and tell them that you are gaining knowledge and that between you all, if you stand shoulder to shoulder, you will be giving him the best support and hope for a gamble free life.
I will leave this here for a first reply but please keep posting and if there is anything you don’t understand please come right back at me. The written word can so often be misconstrued and it is only with time and sharing that trust is built up.
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Tosca
Please, please don’t feel disloyal – you were writing as you see your situation in exactly the same way as I would have written 12 years ago.
There are many reasons why husbands feel differently to wives about children who develop the addiction to gamble and that is why I think it is important for a couple to keep talking but also to do things together, things that are not gambling related in any way. In the middle of the confusion is an angry, unhappy child who is handling each parent individually because of an out-of-control addiction. I never thought for a minute that your husband wasn’t trying and I am sorry if I implied, in any way, that he was to blame for not getting it right.
We are not given a book of instructions when our child develops the addiction to gamble, there is no crystal ball, we struggle and try to help as best we can. In seeking help we learn that things we tried were perhaps not the best way forward but it is important not to beat ourselves up over what has gone before. .
When your resolve is worn down it is understandable that parents feel that maybe the other one could have done more or done things differently but who is to say, certainly not me. I made so many mistakes and I too felt my marriage threatened by the situation. It would be great to ‘talk’ to you; your husband would be welcome too, in the privacy of an F&F group.
I never thought that your husband wasn’t trying to help and I never thought for a moment that you were being disloyal. It was mis-placed feelings of loyalty that kept me from opening my mouth in Gam-Anon meetings for many weeks but when I found my voice I let it all out – and ‘yes’ I would have said that my husband and I were trying to get it right in different ways and probably that his way was less helpful; the understanding was fantastic and the relief was amazing. Withholding bits of how we feel stops us getting to grips with the whole problem. 12 years on my husband and I could not be happier so don’t despair.
So keep reading and keep posting – I probably wrote for far too long yesterday and didn’t express myself as well as I should.
Thank you for coming back at me
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Mb
When a CG really asks for help there is always hope. Unfortunately if she is only asking because she has got herself into an awful mess and thinks that off-loading it on to you is the only answer then she is not truly accepting her problem.
Well done in not attacking – it is so easy to lose control when you are confronted as you have been but you did well.
Taking over her finances is good and talking as a team is great but she needs more support. As her daughter you have your own life to lead and it is important that your mother’s addiction doesn’t hurt your life. Looking after you is vital for both of you.
Is your mother’s best friend the one to whom she owes $800.
I think you deserve a lot of ‘on the ground’ support and Worriedmama is right – Gam-Anon could offer that support. It is the sister group of GA and it is for the friends and Family who are affected by gambling. I think it would be great if your mother returned to her group too and this time doesn’t stop using the support because she thinks she is either controlling her addiction or fooling herself that she is cured.
A CG (compulsive gambler) cannot be cured but they can live wonderful lives in control of their addiction. It is tough to know that they can never place a bet again and many feel a void without it but I wouldn’t be writing to you if I didn’t know it can be done. Your mother would do well to find things to fill the void such as new hobbies, or interests that she used to enjoy, seeing friends and enjoying you as her daughter and not her carer.
Sadly the threat of suicide is common and the one thing that those who love CGs fear the most. It is a call from the depths of misery but your mother can save herself and bring herself out of this mess.
I cannot tell you what to do I hope you will not clear her gambling debts or give her cash – your mother has to take responsibility for her actions and clearing her own debts is one of the ways to do this.
Keep posting, your mother is lucky to have you looking out for her.
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Tosca
Not having agreement on how to handle the drama, created by an addiction to gamble in a family, offers fertile breeding ground for the addiction to grow.
I am hoping that with the knowledge that you will gain here you can get your husband to come on board with you and offer a united front against your son’s addiction which is the best thing for your son. Giving cash to a CG is the same as giving a drink to an alcoholic – as soon as cash is given, either in the hand or by clearing a debt, the slate is cleaned but it is never a launch pad to recovery – it only provides the necessary tool to gamble. The addiction to gamble is nothing to do with money, money is merely the tool – it is the ‘gamble’ itself that causes loss of self-esteem, loss of confidence resulting in bad behaviour. If you son is being enabled then he is being kept in the cycle of addiction. As my son said to me I did everything wrong for all the right reasons
Your son sleeps or maybe pretends to sleep to protect his addiction. His addiction doesn’t want to hear you. I hope the following will help you understand what is happening when you talk to your son; although not recognised professionally it has been a coping mechanism for many of us – and I know it works.
Imagine your son’s addiction as a beast in the corner of the room. Every time you speak to your son, even if he seems half asleep, the beast is awake waiting for the threat. As long as you keep your cool and don’t threaten it, it will stay in the corner, growling quietly – but it is always there and listening.
The good news is that although your son is controlled by his addiction, you are not; you can gain knowledge and be one step ahead. When you threaten his addiction with conditions (maybe something as simple as a request to tidy his room), his addiction will leap between you, taking control of the conversation, probably turning it into an argument which justified him gambling again. His addiction is the master of threats and manipulation but you are not and nor do you want, or need, to be. You are tired, fed- up and confused and his addiction knows it. Once the addiction beast is between you, you will not hear your son, you will only hear his addiction – and because it knows only lies and deceit, it will seek to make you feel blame and demoralize you. In turn, when you speak to your son, his addiction is distorting your words, drastically altering reality to fit his personal perception – he will not be able to comprehend your meaning.
My CG, son, explained this to me. A parent telling a CG son that they love them and they want to help them must be lying. The addiction to gamble is an addiction of failure. A CG cannot win which leaves them feeling worthless and unlovable so why would you love a worthless failure. Believing himself to be without worth your son will fight back with distortion and deception because sadly, at the moment, he doesn’t have, or know, any other coping mechanism. Telling him you love him and/or throwing money at the problem only fuels the addiction.

I believe it is really important to stand back and listen rather than trying to argue with his distorted mind – hopefully it will become easier to stay out of an argument that has no point apart from making you feel less in control. Once you begin to try and put your side, the addiction has something to get its teeth into. Having listened, post here and hopefully between us we can find a way to support him.
The best thing you can do for your son is to look after yourself first because by doing so, you will become stronger, you will reclaim your own life and be able to cope with his addiction. One of the best ways to win is not to play the game.
It doesn’t sound much but it works – when we fall apart from the addiction of another we become impotent ourselves and as such we cannot help the CG or ourselves.
Like you, your son would not have know he had a problem until it was too late. He probably gambled for fun in his early teens without any thought that an addiction was to be his lot. All CGs want to gamble responsibly but the addiction means they will always lose. Standing back and watching a loved one lose is the most painful thing. Stopping him from the pain his addiction is bringing him by clearing his debts or giving him cash is not the answer. Only your son can save himself.
Who is keeping your son in food and warmth at the moment if he has no job? If it is you then I suggest he doesn’t get the best food, the best of anything and he doesn’t get to help himself from the fridge. I cannot tell you what to do but I hope you will safeguard your finances and personal belongings, whether sentimental or valuable,
Your son is not deliberately hurting you, he will not like the person his is but he is caught in a cycle of behaviour which he is not accepting is his doing at the moment.
Your son is lost but he can be found, sadly you can lose your marriage because of it or you can grow stronger in unity.
I understand your feeling that you wish he would go away and maybe that is what he has to do.
Your son sadly does not appear to have been hurt enough which is a terribly sad thing for me to write and for you to read.
From all you have said in this post I think the key lies in your relationship with your husband. I believe you should ensure you have time for the two of you where gambling is not the focus. I would imagine that having the addiction in the home has killed a lot of the things you used to do together – try and rekindle the things that made you happy. Perhaps tell your husband that you are seeking support, perhaps tell him that all you are going through is understood here, that other have walked this sorry path before you.
I will end this post by repeating my earlier message that I would not be writing to you now if I did not know that your son can control his addiction and he can live a fantastic life as a result. You are at the beginning of a really difficult learning curve but you can do it and so can your husband. The more support you can give each other the better. There is so much more to tell you but I will leave it there for now.
Velvet

[velvet]

<

Hello Mb

Thanks for starting a thread in the Gambling Therapy friends and family forum. This forum will provide you with warmth and understanding from your peers.

Feel free to use the friends and family group, you’ll find the times for these if you click on the “Group times” box on our Home page. Now that you have introduced yourself you’ll find that many of the people you meet here have already read your initial introduction and they’ll welcome you in like an old friend 🙂

If you’re the friend or family member of someone who is either in, or has been through, the GMA residential programme please take extra care to make sure that nothing you say in groups, or on our forums, inadvertently identifies that person. Even if your loved one isn’t connected with GMA, please don’t identify them either directly or indirectly just in case they decide to use the site themselves.

You’ll find a lot of advice on this site, some of which you’ll follow, some you won’t…but that’s ok because only you fully understand your
situation and what’s best for you and the people you love. So, take the support you need and leave the advice you don’t because it all comes from a caring, nurturing place 🙂

We look forward to hearing all about you!

Take care

The Gambling Therapy Team

PS: Let me just remind you to take a look at our
privacy policy and terms and conditions so you know how it all works!

[velvet]

Hi Tosca
I’m afraid I don’t have time to write an adequate reply to you tonight. You deserve a lot of thought after the effort you put in to your first post.
I will post tomorrow but in the meantime I am so pleased that you have started your thread.
Velvet

[velvet]

<

Hello Tosca

Thanks for starting a thread in the Gambling Therapy friends and family forum. This forum will provide you with warmth and understanding from your peers.

Feel free to use the friends and family group, you’ll find the times for these if you click on the “Group times” box on our Home page. Now that you have introduced yourself you’ll find that many of the people you meet here have already read your initial introduction and they’ll welcome you in like an old friend 🙂

If you’re the friend or family member of someone who is either in, or has been through, the GMA residential programme please take extra care to make sure that nothing you say in groups, or on our forums, inadvertently identifies that person. Even if your loved one isn’t connected with GMA, please don’t identify them either directly or indirectly just in case they decide to use the site themselves.

You’ll find a lot of advice on this site, some of which you’ll follow, some you won’t…but that’s ok because only you fully understand your
situation and what’s best for you and the people you love. So, take the support you need and leave the advice you don’t because it all comes from a caring, nurturing place 🙂

We look forward to hearing all about you!

Take care

The Gambling Therapy Team

PS: Let me just remind you to take a look at our
privacy policy and terms and conditions so you know how it all works!

[velvet]

Hi Chalsteve
I echo all your comments entirely – even without an addiction the temptation to try and get something for nothing, in every form of media, appears to offer a thrill with the added promise of fulfilling a dream.
Going back to one of your earlier posts I think you are doing really well with your research and understanding – it is the path I took and it is, I believe, the reason why my CG and I have such a good relationship now.
Keep going the way you are – it seems a thankless job and it takes you into some hellish places but in the end it does bring some clarity, if not all.
I was never aware of the possibility of hope; relapses, slips, gambling and addiction were words to which I did not relate. I only knew that I had lost my son and he had been replaced by someone I didn’t recognise and that during this transition I had somehow lost myself. I believe that your early awareness will sustain you through this nightmare offering your son the best support he could have – even if he doesn’t recognise it yet.
You are right that the ‘window of receptiveness’ is very small and recognising it is almost impossible but it will almost certainly follow a relapse. I didn’t see the window but fortunately I gave the right direction by luck rather than judgement. Even if your son is closing his mind to support you know where it is. Keep listening to him even if it is distortion and deception because in the middle of all the chaos the window will occasionally be open.
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Timetogo
I am concerned that your husband has tried to isolate you from those who care about you, the addiction to gamble is divisive in families to obtain enablement; I hope that knowing this will help you seek the support that you deserve. I think it is best to just tell those who love you that your husband has an addiction as a statement, without inviting opinions which (in my experience) generally tend not to be very helpful.
I obviously can’t answer whether you love your husband anymore but I know it is possible to feel great anger and even loathing towards a CG who is wrecking your life and then later in recovery to find love. Only you can know or guess the likelihood of loving him if he entered a true recovery.
You are right that separation doesn’t bring freedom from the CG when there are children and of course this makes the actual separation even more unpleasant. Having said that some relationships create atmospheres that are not good for children and sometimes it is better to follow a different dream from the one you had. I was left with 3 very small children many years ago (nothing to do with gambling) and it was devastating for quite a long time but when I look back with hindsight I have no regrets.
Put yourself first Timetogo and don’t allow your husband’s addiction to control your happiness – every day give yourself time to do something that is good for you and ignore any barbed comments. Obviously if your children are very small this is more difficult but even taking them for a walk and seeing nature unfold around you or playing a game can blow the cobwebs from your mind. . Come out from the shadow of his addiction which is diminishing your life and allowing fear take over. See family and friends just to laugh about something that has nothing to do with gambling. Visualise a successful outcome of what ‘you’ want and your confidence will increase.
Keep posting Timetogo – getting the pain out in the open is a great way to find your recovery and know what is right for you and your children.
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Emma
I hope you are still reading – I don’t think my reply to you was as relevant as it should have been – sorry I do get muddled at times.
Please write again – the early recover for a CG is difficult for those around them who are trying to get it right. When a CG is active, all F&F want is for the CG to stop gambling which will hopefully lead to plain sailing from then on, a time to rebuild a relationship – but I know it isn’t easy – for the CG or the person who loves them.
F&F have swings of feeling, as do CGs, in early recovery, different mine-fields open up and I believe this is one of the most important times for F&F to share with those who understand.
I’ve missed you in the group and I hope you will join us again because I am limited in what I can say on the forum without hearing your unique concerns.
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Timetogo
You did really well writing your first post which can’t have been easy and I am glad you have brain-dumped, hopefully you felt better for doing it.
I often ask people if they love the person in their life who has a gambling addiction because very often people have forgotten to think about whether they do or not, they are just going from day to day, going round in ever decreasing circles and getting nowhere. Usually the answer is yes and from that moment rebuilding the relationship as well as getting the right support is important to both the CG and the F&F recoveries. You are saying, however, that you no longer love your husband and for that reason I am unable to talk about rebuilding your relationship,
I know all about the moods, the ups and down, the misery that accompanies the addiction to gamble, I also know it is sometimes difficult to tell who the CG really is and whether love has died completely never to return regardless of a true recovery.
In the periods between his relapses did you experience any happy times, did you ever feel hope?
I know how hard, sometimes impossible, it is to share what living with a CG is like, so I hope you will keep posting here where you are understood and hopefully you will find the right way forward for you.
Finding inner strength isn’t something one can do overnight but it is do-able and I think that sharing makes it easier.
I know all about being manipulated to make space for an addiction to feed and what it is like to be blamed for everything that has gone wrong but I am wondering what has made you write now when your husband is apparently trying again to control his addiction. Is he still blaming you?
I am not judging Timetogo, I couldn’t. I became estranged from the CG in my life and the actual estrangement was worse than anything that had gone before.
I do know from experience that the addiction to gamble can be controlled; I also know that some relationships cannot survive and some should not survive.
Please keep posting, what ‘you’ want is important.
Velvet

[velvet]

<

Hello Timetogo

Thanks for starting a thread in the Gambling Therapy friends and family forum. This forum will provide you with warmth and understanding from your peers.

Feel free to use the friends and family group, you’ll find the times for these if you click on the “Group times” box on our Home page. Now that you have introduced yourself you’ll find that many of the people you meet here have already read your initial introduction and they’ll welcome you in like an old friend 🙂

If you’re the friend or family member of someone who is either in, or has been through, the GMA residential programme please take extra care to make sure that nothing you say in groups, or on our forums, inadvertently identifies that person. Even if your loved one isn’t connected with GMA, please don’t identify them either directly or indirectly just in case they decide to use the site themselves.

You’ll find a lot of advice on this site, some of which you’ll follow, some you won’t…but that’s ok because only you fully understand your
situation and what’s best for you and the people you love. So, take the support you need and leave the advice you don’t because it all comes from a caring, nurturing place 🙂

We look forward to hearing all about you!

Take care

The Gambling Therapy Team

PS: Let me just remind you to take a look at our
privacy policy and terms and conditions so you know how it all works!

[velvet]

Hi Chalsteve
I have read and understood your post and I am giving it a lot of thought. It is a post that deserves a lot of thought but I will write to you soon.
I know how desperate you feel but for tonight I can only offer you the knowledge that your son can face the raging addiction that is causing him to behave in what appears to be an abominable manner and be the decent human being you hope for.
I was going to write that sadly the awful behaviour doesn’t surprise me but maybe that isn’t sad because however awful it has been I have seen it myself and come through it so I can offer you real hope.
I don’t know what happened that caused your son to apply to GMA but whatever it was he wasn’t ready but he knows the support is there. Maybe you could tell him about our Helpline – it is a terrific support for many and that includes many who think they can control their addiction. It is so hard for a gambling addict to think they cannot control the thing that is hurting them – it is so hard for them to think that somebody could take away that which they believe gives them a reason for living.
Your son is not deliberately hurting you or his grandparents – he has an addiction that is hurting him which suffocates any form of empathy. He is blind and deaf to logic and reason.
Keep posting and maybe call our Helpline yourself. This site has Harry on the Helpline and Charles who runs a ‘drop-in for all’ group that you can join – both these men will understand your son, both can tell you that they too hurt and damaged those around them – maybe they can give you the hope you seek. Compulsive gamblers who face their addictions and live true recoveries are more than often prepared to bare their souls for others – please use all the support we have.
This wasn’t supposed to be anymore than a quick acknowledgement that I have heard you – I will continue to get my little grey cells working for you but for now I will leave this post here.
Velvet

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