[jenny46]

Dear Neecy

My partner went through GH (twice) the second time was when we were together and I had accrued a little insight by then. I can only say to you that we had contact all the way through and I wish we had not – with the benefit of hindsight ! It serves as nothing more than a distraction to what he is there to do and what you are here to do.
He cannot deal with his self and his emotions, that is why he is there, he can’t cope with him so how is he supposed to cope with you and your emotions and while you are worrying about him and what the future may hold for you both, then you are not looking after you.

As you have found out, the fact that he is in rehab does not mean that you are protected from recieving ‘the blame’ the nastiness and are now immune to manipulation. Far from it. If he could not give you the brunt of it he may have to be talking to people who will handle these types of feelings in the way they should be handled. In my experience of GH they do not allow people to dump the responsibility of their own lives at the doors of someone else. Without the avenue of contact with you he will at some stage have to look at himself. If anything contact is a hinderance in many ways to recovery.

Who knows whether he meant what he said or not. I would imagine he doesn’t know as yet what he wants and if he does then that could change several times over, depending on what he’s doing and where he’s at. Change is a lot of things but one thing is certain – it is unpredictable.

Rehab is no cure it is hopefully a beginning of the next chapter in his life and in yours whether it be separate or together. It is a time for you as well as for him and in order for this time to be productive do you really want to be sitting there thinking.
What’s he talking about today
Should I ring should I not
why hasn’t he rang me – he doesn’t care
How many egg shells shall i run about on today !!

Now I think the only thing that I would want to know if this time happened to me again would be – Is he still there ?

He cared enough to make that leap Denise, hopefully he has put his life in the hands of the staff at GH and I can think of no better place for him to be right now. Let them do their job, let him deal with him.
Now you !! This is your time to think about you and your future you have found this forum and I hope you make full use of it for as long as you feel you need to.
Here is the place to let off steam, push things, thoughts feelings and ideas around just as he will be doing or just scream when all else seems to be descending around your ear holes – I have many times and I am still standing !!

Jenny x

[jenny46]

I have read your post from start to finish and did attempt a reply the other day but failed abismally so sorry for that. I would like to put your husbands addictions on one side for a moment if that’s ok. What I hear when I read your posts is almost a gurgling as you try to keep your head above water in all the day to day practicalities of life – being all things to all people until the life has been sucked out of you, an endless stream of stress and pressure. The whole picture is just to big Madge to take on in its entirety. I know because I have been in a similar position.
I have run around doing everything for everyone, trying to make it right and burning myself out into the bargain feeling that if everything was right for them then in some way it would be right for me to. If you were to ask me, who was the fool, me for doing it or those that let me, then the answer would have to be me!!
Looking after you is important and does not have to be a grand affair it can be something as simple as turning your back on the dishes or putting something in the shopping trolley once a week that is just for you. It is not selfish it is sensible and self preservation, but it can be hard to do. Saying no without feeling the need to justify it and explain your decision away is the start of you believing in you.
If you have to have a battle choose it wisely – is it worth it? and still I am not talking about the addiction just day to day stuff. I got into a battle in a similar situation with my son at school which finished in me taking him out and him going to a new school – best thing I ever did at least for him, its not throwing the towel in its just focusing on what the outcome needed to be ( even though I confess to taking a certain amount of delight in bullying the obnoxious head master considerably more than he ever bullied my son !!) but it didn’t help, there was no point in the battle nothing could have changed as long as it continued.

Dishes can seem like an incredibly big issue and indeed an important one, strangely when ignored for long enough they seem to do themselves and if they don’t what is the worst thing that can happen ?
Small things become big things and big things become too big to look at objectively.
I would like to see you get rid of the small things one by one in order to give yourself a more sturdy foundation from which to work. Very simple boundaries that help you to regain a sense of stability within you. Sit back and watch the mayhem around you and ask yourself what is really important and necessary to do at that time – bit by bit the answers will come.

I don’t know how but this post has suddenly gone into the wrong order but I hope it makes sense so far !!

So then the addiction/s on the top of everything else – same rules apply (in my oppinion) Choose your battles, focus on what’s important. You cannot win this battle as its not yours to fight, like the obnoxious headmaster, it squeals like an excited old hen, when its poked hard enough running around quacking nonsense in its attempts to protect itself, blaming everything else but itself ! It can indeed be that beast in the corner but it fears you, it snarls (quacks) and is best left alone to be with itself.
I too would be very surprised if you were able to be close to your husband after all that has happened and maybe a little worried. Again try to be a little more gentle with your expectations of yourself. You are harsh on yourself , something somewhere tells me it should be the other way around. Time will tell how this will play out for you but you are in charge of life, life is not in charge of you

Jenny x

[jenny46]

Looby

I’ve been wondering how things are going for you ? these days I am not here so often and when I have been i have not succeeded in posting, I have the IT skills of a knat at times !! I too hope that you have a better year ahead and above all a peaceful one x

Jenny

[jenny46]

Dear Adele
Your recent replies have been tough but already your learning is obvious in the way you are now writing – I see a new and stronger Adele emerging, one who will question how she is being treated or allowing herself to be treated. the addiction is tough and will remain a step ahead whilst untreated. We can be tougher by trying not to keep up with it if that makes sense ?
I would think he is gathering his thoughts Adele (not that I am a mind reader!! of course) His addiction is experiencing different responses and unpredictable responses from you and may feel quite unsafe with all of that – it may decide to change its behaviour in order to try and illicit the old Adele like responses – be ready for this if you can.
Its horrible watching the addiction take so much from a person as you say, even though we know its within that persons own control it doesn’t make it any the easier. However at least now hopefully it will no longer be taking you down with it as well. Where you are now and where you can be puts you in a much better position to give the right support to him if that’s what you want to do. You should be nearer to the top of your own priorities and it is good to read that you are, difficult when you find a new way of being or get in between, the old and the evolvement of the new.
Whatever choices you make Adele are ones that will be right for you at that time, I think it does feel like being alone in a relaitionship with this addiction and consequently it is little wonder that we begin to make choices or think along the lines of being alone, as we already are. He could change this if he so wanted Adele, I hope you never lose sight of that in the future, with what ever decisions you make.
Any way what’s wrong with single !! I love it, not that I am recommending it as a course of action for anyone else, I would rather of had it the other way but it wasn’t to be. I remember the ***** when my thinking started to change and indeed it still is and the insecurities of not knowing even if the knowing brought worse problems, it still brought security.
With the benefits of a couple of months with no addiction in my life, would I go back? I think I could say even if I wanted to then I couldn’t (thankfully). Big changes in you Adele and ones hopefully that will turn into some positive changes for both of you. I think its great!
Jenny
 We see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

[jenny46]

Thank you all so much for your rep***s, they are received with gratitude and are a reinforcement to what I am thinking. I guess the best way to put it is that I know and feel more importantly that I just don’t love him any more, not in the way that I would want to or need to for things to ever stand a chance again between us with changes or otherwise.
Its just not there any more and that won’t change for me and I think he will know that to. When I said there is hope for him but not for us, I meant exactly that I would like to think that he will change his life and we know that he could if he wanted to enough, but I no longer want to be a part of his life or him to be a part of mine. It is a different feeling than before and one that ****** him out even if he works for a recovery.
Its not so hard to let go now that I have more fulfilling things in my life that I have worked so hard to achieve and that are giving me focus and direction in my life – like my boys. I am already more happy than sad although I have no doubt that sadness can linger a while.
I can make plans without fear of the next bombshell or worrying about the ***** of others and how I need to respond or react to the next crisis. I can have friends without it crossing my mind that he may try to get money from them etc etc .
I no longer question my own be***fs or manage my own distrust or scepticism as to what I am being told, is there a recovery or isn’t there. What is a *** and what is the truth, I just don’t have to think it or think in that way now and the re***f is enormous.
Going back for a moment for the last time I think the real killer for me was a few months ago when he had returned home and then said that he was depressed this escalated in to him saying that he was suicidal. Immediately afterwards he turned off his phone and I started to panic despite good advice and my own better instincts. Some days later it got the better of me and I contacted the police who tracked him down and yes he was fine or should I say not dead. I had very nearly worried myself into an early grave and it made me physically ill as it was on top of a load of other stuff I had going on.
He was just too selfish to send a text, a call just to say I’m ok. It was all a ruse or probably the symptom of a gambling episode. The fact that he was willing to do this was the beginning of the end for me. I don’t want a relaitionship where one can do that to another for any reason. I be***ve it was quite a calculated move on his part and I did not feel quite the same again about things.
I am vulnerable and the hatches are down – but just to him and other dubious characters. He has made me a stronger person although this would not have been his intent I dare say. I also have some hatches to open – carefully !!
I think the sad moment for me was coming across the mask of himself that he made in GH which he wanted me to have, it was weird in the sense that I thought at first – yeah !! I really never knew who you were either. It was one of my most treasured possessions and has the ability to turn into something that I feel a strong urge to poke with a very large pin. I sat him on my dressing table, glared at him, thought about throwing him away and noticed that even the mask can look different from different angles and at different ***** dependent on my own ***** or feelings at the time, so he is currently confined to the memory box in danger of being transferred to the ‘too difficult’ box at least he is no longer appearing to observe me  ( I hope that doesn’t sound like I’ve finally lost the plot ).
Not going anywhere for a while !!
Jenny x
 We see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

[jenny46]

Thank you for your replies, i’m doing well, had a great weekend with the boys leaving not a lot of time to dwell really on all things negative. I guess I missed him a little but I think that’s more because of the amount of time I used in a day on that relaitionship, when its not there any more it leaves a gap. Sadly it is not because I am missing anything else about it, least not the lies and the distrust. I have way too much going on to keep my mind busy as usual so any moments of madness have been just that – madness.
Looby, I think some people just never get it i’m afraid but I take my hat off to those that do, who knows there is hope for him yet but it will be his hope and not mine. I guess I would hope for him but not hope for us, its time for me to leave all that behind now.
So all in all things remain good and positive, loads to do, no tears and a future to plan – I will be busy !! or busier I should say, but a lot less stressed already
Jenny xWe see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

[jenny46]

Hi So Sad
Yes I have a good idea ! You did nothing wrong, in fact you did everything within your power to love and support someone who for their own reasons decided not to change, leaving you very other little choice except a further future of misery and false hopes and promises, lies and deception (sorry was going on a bit there) or the future you have chosen for yourself and the chance to live your life in the way that you so choose it to be.
Although it may not have been what you would have wanted and the sadness is obvious in your post, it is none the less a success in terms of this addiction that you have had the strength, knowledge and the courage to walk away and not to be brought down any further.
Sometimes enough is enough and when enough happens then we can go forwards, try new things, meet new people (which we can trust eventually !! hopefully) in a future free from all that the addiction creates. You may have helped your partner in the long run, perhaps he has had to lose you to in order to feel a change is in order.
For me each time something happened it became harder to pull it back until really there was nothing to pull back except a heap more **** for myself. Doesn’t mean i’m not sad or miss him just that eventually it evaporated and I no longer consider it worth the fight.
So Sad I wish you every success with your future and whatever it holds but most of all I wish you the happiness that you deserve. Please let us know how you go on.
Jenny xWe see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

[jenny46]

Dear BB
Focusing on you and the kids is good. A safe zone is good. I am not sure why perving at **** is something that people don’t know why they do, but none the less I guess it can be a form of escapism for some. What comes across to me is the hurt and or resentment in the reception you get when you express your ***** or concerns to him, sometimes its easier and less painful to beat a retreat, leaving things unresolved only to have it raise its head at a later date.
I guess its not nice to hate your husband but then again its not nice to be on the receiving end of such treatment, and I am guessing the foul treatment came first and the dislike set in slowly and over time. I still believe recovery is possible but that it is not an abstinence of gambling or just that should I say. And for us it is not just about a lack of gambling in our lives, it is the recognition of the need to change some of the traits that grow up around the addiction and also our learning that we do not have to tolerate what can be dished out that we are worth a little bit more than that. Hopefully when both people change there can at some point be a meeting in the middle, new ways of being can emerge but can take time and loads of it.
Don’t beat yourself up, you will give you a bigger pounding than he can ever give you. Use your support networks to the hilt and look after you.

JennyWe see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

[jenny46]

Dear El
Slow down, I am trying to digest that last post but from what i am reading he is doing all that he can, but both of you will work your recoveries at a different pace. You are being fair – more than fair and if on the odd occaision you lapse into some little ****** then so what – we are not perfect are we.
You may know the cause of the problem but yet you feel it is yours – well I get that because I felt the same way only because if you love someone and you live with them how can it not be your problem to, the only difference I could say is that you cannot solve it for both of you.
There is no need to throw him out or to put up that sort of barrier (unless you want to!!), by barriers I mean financial protection which can help you relax and remove some of the risks for him, not big walls around you fuelled by fear, although I could understand that to.
I see you talk a lot about his recovery and the recovery of your relaitionship but not much about your own recovery. Your fears are important and are very real and no I would not tell you what to do, only what I would do and right now that would be exactly what I am doing now – nothing !! I am just enjoying the company of my partner and not stressing over things that I know I cannot control or change.
Your recovery is important El, your ***** are as important as his, thats not being unfair, but one thing I did learn is that someone who is in early recovery struggles to cope with their own ***** and cannot cope with ours as well. Another good way of supporting him is to be happy by doing the things that make you happy. Your recovery is within you El.
Jenny
 We see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

[jenny46]

Hi Looby
Just tried to catch up a little with you, there are bits of you all over the place !! I gather things have been mixed for you and just wanted to leap out of the undergrowth and let you know I have thought about you and hope that life is a little more settled of late. Now i’m going to try and find Monique as she too seems to have done one !!
Jenny xWe see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

[jenny46]

Hi Bling
I too would resist any temptation to allow him to move in if you can, far from helping him it would be enabling him to continue, this time at your expense. I once made that very mistake. Perhaps he ***** to face the consequences of his own actions and to find somewhere in this grounds to sue you would be quite astoundingly brilliant !!! but for now we could settle for ludicrous or distorted. Perhaps some legal advice may put your mind at rest.
I think its possible that you may find it more difficult to ask him to leave than to stop it now, whilst he is in the throws of the addiction he is not thinking logically and I would doubt his motivation and / or intentions until he seeks help and you are able to see some real evidence of a sustained change.
If its any consolation Bling I could have worried myself into an early grave wondering at ***** if my partner was on the street or starving to death but I am pleased to report that nothing could have been further from the truth, he actually looked very well !! there is often a whole a whole host of enablers ready to take over.
Look after you Bling and your finances, you won’t be the one putting him on the street he will manage that all by himself, he has options and he can make those choices, if he ends up there it is because he has chosen it to be that way.
Look after yourself and please post some more
Jenny
 
 We see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

[jenny46]

Dear El
You are doing well, very well. I am becoming a little facinated by this idea of total trust and what it means. I can only wonder whether I could totally trust my CG. Well let me think !! NO. Well that was taxing, and it is because I believe that the addiction that he has is a life long illness with no ‘cure’ and therefor even the longest of recoveries have the potential to stumble along the way. If the addiction is lifelong then so are the risks.
Just as a CG can become complacent and drop the barriers that have given protection, then my own belief is so can we become complacent and ask for trouble where there is no need to do so. So would I have a joint account, loan etc etc with my partner – absolutely not and if that means I am distrustful then, so what, better than being skint.
I would neither wish to place temptation under the nose of what is an extremely powerful addiction. I guess what i’m saying El is I can trust the person to drag me out of a burning room (well possibly not at the moment !! he might quite like to nail up the door!!) but I will never trust the addiction, not ever and although it is good to be able to separate the addiction from the person, we can never take it away. Therefore good barriers are not signs of distrust they are signs of common sense, and protection for both, they are an indicator of the willingness of both to make a successful recovery.
I am further confused when we discuss at length on this forum the tremendous lies we are told and the elaborate lengths that the addiction is capable of, we recognise fully the damage the lies, above everything else, does to our relaitionships and the core of who we are and then suddenly when the word recovery is mentioned we all suddenly begin to wonder why we either cannot trust or why we are in the ‘wrong’ for not trusting or its just not happening – its interesting to say the least, the terrific amount of pressure that we can place on ourselves, to trust.
I think El good barriers will always be a positive, they can be placed there and left alone, forgotten about, removing the need for a lot of time consuming running around and checking. Trust will happen when and if the time is right when it  happens you will know it has and where it is. Putting the trust issue on to you is only a form of manipulation.
I have gone right off at a tangent to the point I have forgotten what I was going to say in the first place. I think it was going to be along the lines of – there may never be that revelation, that one thing that proves a change is on the horizon, maybe a series of tiny things that grow along the months ahead, good things that are not one offs or designed to convince us that recovery is happening but little things that happen more than once and are not only going to be visible straight after a counselling session. Sometimes we find the answers where we least expect them to be.
Jenny
 We see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

[jenny46]

Dear Adele
I see you doing the hard work here to the point where you can lose sight of who you are, as you creep around on eggshells trying to make it right or guarding what you say to him about his behavior or his addiction. How convenient for his addiction to have someone so worn down by it but also desperate for the well being and recovery of that person. Too me that is a powerful combination for the addiction to use to its own devices. It knows you love him, it knows you believe that recovery is possible, it knows your knackered and it probably knows that at ***** your self esteem is at rockbottom – it thinks it knows you and your reactions which is why he is able to spin the most remarkable lies!! I think possibly I see it like this because I have heard very similar on several occaisions to the point they actually become a little predictable but often impossible to see because of all of the above.
I had a gambling conversation with my partner last night and we do have several these days although brief it went something like this he asked me "do you believe you can be one step ahead of this addiction?" to which I replied "No and I would never try to do it again" he said "Good I hoped you would say that" meaning that he knows that I have learned to look after me not that he was hoping to be able to pull a stunt !! I then said to him "Do you believe that if I find out that you have gambled that you will be spending another night under my roof ? " to which he replied "absolutely not" What the conversation showed to me was that through his recovery and mine has grown a mutual respect, I respect the power and capabilities of his addiction and he respects my right not to put up with it.
I used to agonise over the right way to say things or mention the G word and I agree there are more positive ways to put things across than how I often do but if he is telling you lies and has told so many in the past he has a bit of a cheek asking you if you believe him ! in my oppinion. I think my partner now in recovery would tell me I was actually a bit silly if i were to believe everything he said and would not have that expectation.
I guess I am trying to say don’t let his addiction compromise who you are, if you don’t believe him tell him if you feel you can, that no actually you don’t and why would you. Let him wriggle around on his own hook for a while. As V has said strengthen your barriers and look after you. Your feelings are more important than comfort for the addiction.
Words are just exactly that and quite unreliable, if he is serious about his recovery he should be showing a bit more action, taking a bit of the responsibility if not all of it. You cannot shoulder it all Adele or it will bring you down. When I read your posts I don’t see a ‘blob’ I see woman who is doing the best that she can under massive adversity. I see a woman who doesn’t yet realise her own strength but will at some point make it work for her.
You believe in him but nows the time to believe in you
Jenny x
 We see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

[jenny46]

Hi CL
Welcome to this forum, my partner is a CG currently in recovery. I guess there is no easy answer to the questions that you ask, the fact that you are reading and learning will help you to come to what will be your own answers in the end. I think that until your sister admits that she has a problem then it will be very difficult if not impossible to get your point accross or offer any guidance or support. This is and will continue to be a source of frustration to you and everyone else involved – except her of course as she is in denial of her problem.
I think there could be some merits in explaining your concerns to her friends because they will then be less likely to provide enablement to her and help her to sustain her addiction. I know that I certainly told my own friends after they were bitten once or twice and do make people aware of possible risks. My partner gets this entirely in recovery but whilst completely in the grips of the addiction would have seen it as interfering, being controling etc etc.
It is a hidden addiction certainly in comparison to others and to keep it so will change nothing, hiding it further only enables it to carry on. There is no shame in this addiction, your sister hasn’t asked for it and will not want it but it is something that she could choose to live in control of.
Who knows when someone makes the decision to change their life it is probably very different for everyone but what I seemed to eventually understand is that they have to reach this decision for themselves and to get to that they seem to have to be totally sick of the consequences to their own actions. For that reason consider stepping back a little even if this means she has to fall flat on her face time and time again, let her pick herself up and suffer her own consequences. It is hard to do, but your energies are best focused on looking after you and providing the support to your niece. If the time comes when your sister wants to change then you can probably offer her a bit more practical support but in the meantime if you have pointed her in the direction where she could get help then there is little else you can do. When this time comes you will need your strength in bucket loads. I
Although you are worrying now it may be an advantage that you do not live under the same roof as this addiction, take it from me having the space away from it is helpful, living with it is worse than a nightmare, I think its important for your niece to get support for her.
I’m not sure if any of this has been helpful to you but what I would like you to know is that you are not alone, keep reading and sharing your experiences.
You can love your sister without loving the addiction
Jenny
 We see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

[jenny46]

Hi Sarah
We are not married but have been together for around 7 years if you take out the gaps, after a stint in rehab for the second time we decided to give it another go but we still live separately, we did live together at one stage. He has not gambled (as far as I am aware !!) for 8mths I think and has done really well.Its day by day for us and very early days in recovery. 
Having said that it is still tough at ***** and I personally have been surprised at how recovery brings about a different set of issues it certainly isn’t all ‘bells and whistles’. Damage done does not go away over night, and the past can jump up and bite, but we are prepared to work at it.
You made me smile by asking if he was "reformed" and I can’t answer you really except to say I think he’s a ‘work in progress’ and is always likely to be – but aren’t we all. The point to me is that he is trying.
Jenny
 We see things not as they are, but through how we are today x

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