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My comments on communication are by no means a criticism of you. I unfortunately know only to well the desire to communicate with an active CG, to talk, to sort things out and hopefully to start again with a ‘clean slate’
I am particularly familiar with the desire to snoop and like you my snooping skills served me well and I found out all sorts of things that I didn’t want to know, the results of which pointed to one thing, which was the addiction was still there kicking and screaming, finding new ways of funding itself, more lies and deceipt and consequently more distrust.
Managing someones finances is a short term fix, it is a barrier to assist someone in their quest to control their addiction. Someone who really wants to stop, not someone who has made sure that they have left themselves an avenue to continue their habit. There will always be another avenue until he wants to stop. Your snooping will drive it even more under ground than it is already, you unfortunately will burn out trying to keep ahead of the situation, its not worth the hassle.
I can only tell you what I would do and that is to make sure my own financial situation was safe and protected and then let him get on with it, his addiction, his debt, his consequences. No snooping, just concentrating on thoughts of how I could best look after me. No more listening to the lies etc. It took me a long time to get to that and the burnout in between was awful, through the snooping, trying to communicate and pure bewilderment as to why everything was happening and what I could do.
It took me a long time to accept properly that there was nothing I could do and no real way to understand all the ins and outs of it all.
What I meant was not that there is anything wrong with how you are communicating with him, but how you are communicating with yourself. In your posts, your happiness seems to depend on his outcomes and not yours, you listen well to him and you have learned what you can.
I think from my knowledge of my own experience and reading between the lines of very many struggles on this forum, I would say that the toughest lesson I’ve learned and the best one ever was to begin to look after me, to trust and listen to myself instead of wasting countless hours listening to the blithering promises and lies of an addiction, through that listening I learned to look after me and put myself further up the list of priorities than I had been doing, the rest slowly fell in to place.
I hope that clears up my somewhat cryptic last post to you
Jenny
you have learned to communicate ? who’s talking back then ? not him clearly. snooping is not communicating is it ?
The biggest part of communication is listening. You are trying to read something that can never be understood, you think you know but you cannot ever know, you are not supposed to know – you will never knowListen to yourself, and if you like to learn as you say you do then listen to yourself and know what you are telling you.
the biggest learning curve will be from how well you can listen to you and what you can learn from you
No matter how much you think you know or could learn you will never be in control of him or his addiction. you can only ever be in control of yourself
Jenny
I think if you’ve made the decision not to live with an addiction, then it has to be followed through.
I have also heard people say that ‘slips’ can be a part of recovery and it is what people do with them that counts.
I also think that there comes a time when all the theorising and mumbo jumbo surrounding this addiction gives people way too much ‘wriggle room’.
It is possible to find too many reasons for poor behaviour. Hanging the hat of the addiction on his extremely rude and uncalled for comments is almost a get out. Would you tolerate those comments from someone who did not have addictions. I am hoping the answer will be no ? and if it is No then why is this different.
Its completely disrespectful and insulting is what it is. I am pleased he has taken his bible with him perhaps he may open it and learn something or maybe he needs a larger print version.
What ever you decide to do Berber, must be right for you and your children. Who knows if it goes on for long enough it may even feel like there is one less child around, one that is old enough to know better.
I hope you regain some peace in your life, it would certainly be well deserved
Jenny
The reason you are so calm James is because finally the addiction is beginning to leave your mind, and although you still question yourself, deep down you know that the decisions you are making are right for you.
You now accept, although it worries you still that the likelihood is she will gamble all that money and that if she does, then those will be her consequences to live with, they will not be yours.
She however is losing her grip and control, she has lost the ability to make you dance to her tune. The combative behaviour is in my opinion a very well used tool of the addiction – the content of her communication is without a doubt both manipulative and very typical of an addiction scorned. The thing is its no longer working !! and all credit to you for getting to that point, you’ve certainly been through it just lately. Never forget that this addiction is a first class manipulator, keep that at the forefront of your mind if you do really have to have a conversation.
As for whether she is telling the truth or not? well that’s a hard one ! Do compulsive gamblers tell lies ? I think we all know the answer to that one. I found it easier to believe everything was a lie – just think of the pleasant surprise you’ll have when you are told the truth one day.
I totally understand your need to be on your own and speaking from experience it can be the best thing going, giving your brain that chance to cool off. A chance to get it all in perspective.
It may not feel like it James, but you are doing this and you are coping well. I think that not only do we develop a distrust of others but also one of ourselves and our own ability to be confident in us.
You may still question yourself for sometime unfortunately, but it does go James, it will end eventually.
Jenny
None of these rules mean that you have to accept poor treatment of you by an individual.
Not returning calls, or letters etc is basic rudeness not adverse systems !
You haven’t accepted the poor treatment of your ex although its tough – you got out – you did it – you were strong enough.
Don’t accept it from idiots behind desks who can’t be bothered to do their jobs properly. Yes I know that was judgemental of some people in ‘the helping’ professions, it was meant to be
Jenny x
I don’t feel that you are condeming your wife at all, more so just the behaviour that we know frequently goes hand in hand with this addiction.
Whether we love a partner, a son, a friend or a daughter or uncle Jack up the road with this addiction unmanaged, we know that the illness is progressive. I would imagine this to mean – it gets worse not better.Many of us here talk about our need and terrible decision to have to become estranged from the person we love. Not truly meaning them as a person but the grips of their addiction which go hand in hand. We recognise that we go down with that ship if we stay.
Perhaps some compulsive gamblers do have a line they will not cross, perhaps they don’t. Perhaps the illness hasn’t progressed enough yet.
Perhaps someone has been standing in the way minimising harm to their child which would no longer be a barrier when they leave.
Perhaps all sorts of things !
The truth is, none of us actually know what the true capabilities of the addiction are in your wife’s case or indeed any other.
If as adults we make the decision that we need to be estranged from the addiction because of the damage it does to us and the consequences of staying within a destructive relaitionship and all that goes with that. Then how can we do a complete turn around and say that it may be ok for a very young child, with no knowledge and no understanding or influence over their own welfare and safety to do the same thing that we feel the need to get away from. That to me is double standards and very risky.
I think you need to go with what you feel is right. Nothing is set in stone, visits can be supervised, things can progress as recovery progresses.
Jenny
I don’t think there is anything selfish at all about wanting to enjoy your life, I also think you’ve given enough but it is good to hear you say it !
I think we would all wish to see our loved ones recover but there comes a time where a line has to be drawn unless we want to go down as well.
The balls in her court where that is concerned, just as your happiness is in yours.I’m sure your daughter will appreciate having at least one happy and stable parent in her life who in turn can support her with her future relaitionship with her mother, your learning will be a very key factor in your daughters future happiness
You’ve done really well, keep your chin up
Take care
Jenny
I think when people have a certain amount of control over the lives of others or at least a little bit of power – it goes straight to their heads (in some cases) and they have a knack of forgetting that they are paid to do a job and do it to a good standard.
Sometimes they need to be reminded that they are accountable to the people that they work for which in many cases is the public. My situation was not as bad as yours but I to felt totally overwhelmed by injustice, bad treatment and always seeming to come off the worst no matter what my ex husband did in the 10 years of marriage and subsequent 6 years of stalking. I felt so powerless.
I decided to remind a few people via their complaints procedures of exactly what they were there to do and the incompetence of those working for them, I had gone past the point of feeling that complaining could make things worse. Once I got going I had trouble stopping !
I got results because I did my home work and quite calmly listed their bad practices etc against what I had learned that they should be doing.
The best part of doing it though was that I had taken back the power that I had given away (as I see it now) saying the things that I said helped me to off load it on the right doorstep / desk. I got some very different results and i certainly felt better for not being the victim all of the time.
It is a shame that in society, those who can shout the loudest get the best service but it seems to be true.This seems a little like battling the addiction wearing different clothes and most seem so never ending.
No need to have a fight or lose your temper, theres some phrase which goes something like ‘the pen is mightier than the sword’
Jenny x
I think I would be a tad bitter as well, in fact I have been ! I can offer no practical advice and feel that what I am about to say will seem a little lame.
You are not alone although it must feel like that and with the whole world against you – even the authorites who should be able to protect you – no surprise there really.
To me it just shows how thick they are !! and you have seen through the addiction when sadly they have not. I walked out of court once unable to see how anyone could have got it just so badly wrong it still wrankles me to this day if I think about it. The only satisfaction I had was the fantasy in my mind of showing the Judge two fingers.
The thing is Dadda you are still standing in the most difficult of circumstances and as you have got through many other difficulties you will also get through this stage too, even though it appears way to hard right now – it will pass.
Sometimes the best way to win a fight is not to fight, plus its very annoying to others that want one ! You have already won this fight but the benefits have not as yet shown themselves to you.
I know my words will have very little impact on your circumstances, but I wanted you to know you are not alone.
Jenny
My children have lived with the legacy of a gambling addiction and the added impact of their dad being an alcoholic. I naively thought that the things I was putting in place would protect them from the effects of both.
Not so, children pick up on a lot more than we think and the impact is without a doubt damaging. My ex partner who is a CG told me of a few incidents where he had forgotten to pick up his children due to the need to stay in the bookies and indulge his addiction and also financially priorotising his addiction over their needs etc.I can only tell you what I would do not what I think you should do and that is – I would never discharge my responsibility for my children to someone who is active in their addiction without a fight. I understand your daughter misses her mother, but without being of the age to make an informed decision with all the facts, I think it is fair to say that the responsible adult should be the one making a decision with as far as is possible – their head not their heart. Your daughter cannot possibly know of the capacity of the addiction to damage her, I don’t know what leaving your daughter in a potentially dangerous situation like that would say about you in the eyes of the courts etc, should things go badly wrong, although I get where you are coming from.
With regards to having your wife thrown out of the casino, perhaps you need to do that to satisfy your own need to know that you have done all you can. I do feel that a CG who wishes to gamble however will find a way so it may be fruitless.
I think your wife needs to be facing the consequences of her actions alone, losing a child through wreckless, childish, pathetic priorities is a consequence, financial ruin is a consequence, these are the things unfortunately she may have to experience in order to want to change – harsh as it may sound.
There is nothing to say that arrangements cannot be altered if and when your wife decides to make some changes and turn things around but until that time comes perhaps concentrating on yourself and your daughters emotional stability will be much more rewarding.
Jenny
Never ignore your gut instincts again. You may not always realise their true meaning – but they will always be right.
Don’t go with the crap, go with what you feel, I guess you have learned that now ?Maintain your awareness
Always
Jenny
Don’t be to hard on yourself. It is understandable that you suffer anxiety based on the experiences that you have previously had.
It would almost be more worrying if you felt no anxiety at al.Its a good thing (in my opinion) to maintain an awareness of what could happen again, there are no guarantees that it won’t. Maintaining the awareness however doesn’t mean it should consume your life as we are also aware that that we cannot control the actions of others.
The anxiety, distrust etc has been built up over time and does not go away as soon as a recovery appears on the horizon. I too would have had the exact same thought on reading such a message as much as I wouldn’t have wanted to ! even I think if several years had passed – it doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with you.
Jenny
I agree with Monique , a great article and made special in that you can now apply your sadness, struggling and learning in such a way that it goes on to raise awareness in others.
Its a subject that should be up there side by side with all the other addictions in terms of the issues it presents but amazingly and running to form always seems to remain well hidden.
Jenny x
I guess taking risks is a form of gambling, risking your relaitionship could be a form of gambling through cheating.
It could just as easily be a form of escapism from an unhappy relationship, both the gambling and the cheating, I know that is something you may not want to hear. Perhaps he to is staying in the relationship for financial reasons/enablement
Cheating could also be another form of gaining financial enablement to support his gambling addiction, who knows whether he is getting money from the people he is cheating with or not.
What is coming across to me is not the need to establish a link between the two but the message that he is an unpleasant person. If I am being honest I am struggling to see anything in your post that shows he has a “loving” side. Cheating, lieing, are these the actions of a loving person.
I feel you may be trying to apply rational thinking to irrational
situations, and looking for explanations as we all have done in the hope that understanding may lead to solutions or some sort of peace.There is no excuse or justification for his behaviour, depression or otherwise other than, that he uses people for his own personal gains with no regard for those he is walking over in between.
You are right it doesn’t make any sense to stay with someone for financial reasons only and one that that is not helping with finances and furthermore has the capacity to drastically damage your financial situation even further – it makes no sense at all. Its almost like the two of you are just using each other for financial purposes but for different reasons.
I guess it comes down to how sick of it you really are and how you want your life to be in the future, it is apparent from what you are saying that he is progressing in his illness rather than showing any sign of seeking a recovery.
Put your happiness first
Jenny