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Hi, I’m not going to say too much but I will say that I have been in a similar place, only I didn’t know there was a gambling problem. A long time ago, he went with me to a therapy appointment. When I later told him the doctor thought he seemed a little depressed, that enraged him. There was NOTHING wrong with him!
I know other people here can explain some of this pretty well, but I can say that with all the regular responsibilities you have to take care of, plus all the “abnormal” ones created by addiction, you are probably pretty tired and frazzled, at least some of the time! Burned out, in other words. Instead of having a partner to share the load, you end up doing more and also having to not only try to meet your own emotional needs and also, the additional emotional baggage created because of the addiction.
First off, though, it’s NOT your fault! You didn’t create the addiction nor can anything you do “fix” it or make it go away. I was in therapy (and misdiagnosed) for several years before things got better (I regained my self-confidence and ability to be assertive). Had I known about the gambling problems, it probably would have been faster.
I was divorced from him and ended up back there because of our children, still not knowing about the gambling, but I DID then have skills and coping mechanisms (healthier) that the next five years were not draining on me, plus the things that he was doing (that were abusive or demeaning towards our children) I was able to deflect or defuse.
No matter WHAT decision(s) you make, there are likely to be repercussions of some type. You may never know if you made the “right” or “best” decision(s) but I think the thing that will help you most is being at peace with the decisions, and that is most likely if you can recover your emotional health and peace of mind, plus get as much information as possible before you make your decisions.
Again, the addiction and its consequences are NOT your fault; in fact, you are very likely a “hero” if things could be realistically seen – all the things that you have dealt with and so on, and you are still functioning … plus you are recognizing your own needs and limits.
I’m not sure what resources are available to you, but an environment where you can get some of the emotional health restored and things that have crept into your mind as a result of the addiction sorted out and put in their proper place would likely be of great benefit. Recognition of some of the emotional ploys CG uses (and knowing truth – about those ploys and about yourself) are also likely to be of help to get your emotional equilibrium back and maintain it.
I’m hoping and wishing you the very best for the future, because I have been in a similar place and I do KNOW things can be better!
Hi, Ell. I was reading through your whole thread. Your (screen) name is familiar to me but I wasn’t sure why. I am glad for you that things look to be going in positive directions.
I was reading what you had to say, that he (still) goes to therapy, but to “improve himself”. When that is the case, I think it is awesome! I went to therapy for the longest time; the CG I was married to refused “there was nothing wrong with him” (his words and back then, I did not know about the gambling). Anyway, I hope it is encouraging for you, but I know that as I have learned more about myself and the big world too, I don’t just automatically fall back into destructive ways of “coping”. It sounds like maybe that is some of the growth he is having through therapy? I sure hope so.
At the same time, I too hear what you say about forgiveness. There are a lot of sayings about forgiveness and I won’t talk about them, it just seems to me that forgiveness, like being in a good mood, can’t be “forced” or just because you want to.
BUT one thing I learned through therapy and study is that many of the things we think (and learn in school or from society) are not always true. For example, anger. SO many people will just say “anger is bad”. No, it’s what can result from anger that MIGHT be bad. Anger (the energy from it) can actually be used in a positive way. But usually, a person has to be able to look at several options and the (likely) consequences of their actions and CHOOSE how to respond to the anger. Anger, like fear, tells us something might be wrong and tells us to check things out.
I think that you, even without therapy, show a lot of self-awareness about yourself and also about how the gambling has affected you. I did not realize you are in Greece until later in your thread and honestly, I don’t have a lot of chances to keep up on news, but I have heard some about the financial problems there and I can only say that it is completely understandable how the national problems can make your personal ones much harder and scarier. I also don’t know how the gambling there operates, here in U.S. it is often (the money raised) partially part of the government revenue and budget. There are big billboards and ads here, encouraging gambling, but the warnings are in very small print and downplayed. When I have posted about CG, people (often) tell me things like “it’s entertainment” and how gambling (industry) can’t be part of “people’s problems”. That is what makes me have a hard time with forgiveness. Also because here, you can’t just “walk away” from gambling debt, like to a casino. But you can walk away from what is owed a spouse or children. I struggle to just get through each month.
I ended up with PTSD as a result of all the experiences I went through. One of the things with PTSD is that your whole view of “reality” (what you think it is and how it works) is torn to shreds. One of the ways to recover from PTSD is to look at things and make a new framework of reality, putting in the things you have learned from your own experiences. For me, that has sometimes meant standing up and saying “no” when other people try to force me back into the old framework. So I am wondering if that is part of what you are going through? And maybe the “forgiveness” is bigger than “just” forgiving your husband?
When I DID find out about the gambling, I told my husband that he didn’t have to tell me more than I knew about. Most of it all (despite the consequences to me and our daughters) was “between him and God” (that’s my faith, but not saying it has to be looked at that way by everyone). The main point is that the truth had come out and therefore, the problems could be solved. He chose not to do that, but I was able to forgive him on one hand while I still struggle with some of the actions he’s taken, since then, that I still have to cope with. My problems with forgiveness don’t have to do with the person, they have to do with all the other stuff going on that “helps” someone develop a gambling problem and makes light of the problem, ignores it and so on. Your nation (like our govt) can’t even fix its own problems and then you are asked to take on more!
Anyway, I don’t know if this all makes sense or not but I hope some of it does. I don’t mean that my experience and yours are “the same” just that there are a lot of complex things (I think) that go into a gambling problem and as you work on recovering from it, you find out things that you would never have guessed, before. It takes time and strength to put things where they belong and understand, and that’s all while you are trying to take care of everything else.
I hope things continue in a positive direction for you and your family! Your writing has also helped me. Sending you the very best wishes and hopes for future!
Hi, Angela! First of all (and I say this KNOWING that some of my PTSD is “popping up” again and I am EXHAUSTED), a lot of the negative things you are feeling about yourself are distorted. I will share something more about that in a minute. I was talking with my daughter this afternoon. We lost two of our pet cats when the CG’s brother bought house to avoid settlement and threw me out immediately. So I was saying similar, that if I had been “stronger, smarter … a better person”. But logically, I CAN’T blame myself. I was having to figure out to repair cars and all sorts of things. I did not only the best I could, I did my best to figure out what else I could do, etc, etc. That’s good stuff for a crisis/emergency and people can sometimes do heroic things in a crunch, thanks to adrenaline and so on. But NOBODY is designed to live like that, 24/7. It would kill you.
And though some people sometimes tell me, “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger”, I disagree. First, I never signed up for any strength contest or training. Second, what doesn’t kill you can sometimes cripple you or hurt you in other ways. I’m sure most people mean well and might even be helpful, if they knew what is needed.
I know not supposed to get into agendas and all that, but “the situation” is TOTALLY abnormal and UNHEALTHY. You and me and everyone who is carrying more than their weight is being unfairly burdened. If our partners had drug issues, etc, well that can be tested for and people DO seem to “get it” in terms of that sort of thing creating bad environment.
If you can keep it in mind that in abnormal and very difficult/stressful situation, you are maintaining … well that sort of helps me keep perspective.
I ran across something a while back I read as a child (and just checked to see if a link is okay, for this sort of purpose). It’s a Norse story about three of the gods who have an encounter with giants. They are challenged to a few contests that seem very easy, but they all fail to complete them. The lead giant, Utgard-Loki (or Skymir) takes them out of the giant kingdom and tells them the truth, ending by saying, “Had I known how strong you were, I’d have never let you inside in the first place. You were nearly the end of us all.” If you are interested to read it (it’s short) it’s here: http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/mythology/myths/text/thor_utgard.htm
All of the tasks were completely impossible; the fact that the gods were able to accomplish what SEEMED meager and foolish were actually valiant achievements, when the context was fully revealed. I like the story and find it to relate, because there is PLENTY of illusion going on.
In reality, you have strengths that likely, you might not even be aware of or appreciate. You know, stuff that “comes easy” so it’s normal to you but impossible or hard for someone else. The whole situation can shake one’s self confidence and that is where the toxicity of the situation needs to be remembered. You were not designed for tasks that are impossible; it’s like being on a hamster wheel and never having freedom to explore, change, accomplish. To LIVE. Those of us with children are necessarily and often legally more tied into the situation and for an often lengthy period. I’m going through rough patches right now, but I KNOW things CAN and do get better. That doesn’t necessarily mean the CG will, but that option is always there for them if they decide to take it.
I hope some of what I write is encouraging; I know there are a lot of encouraging people here. It helps me to remember some of this through writing it out.
And one thing I can say in all honesty and from experience (having gone through two divorces from him and not even knowing about the gambling til about 5 1/2 years ago), most of my own frustration and negative feelings comes from KNOWING, without a doubt, that happiness and building a pretty good life after is possible (speaking from the viewpoint of going on alone, though I am sure that recovery and going on together that can happen as well).
I’m wishing and hoping the best to and for you as you go forward!
Jenny, I was reading through your story and after everything you have been going through, I was glad to see your last post. It sounds like you have a really good grip on reality of things, despite emotions :-). I think that will do real service to you now and in future.
And yes, your last comment makes perfect sense. My ex had the children after our first divorce (which was why I ended up going back). I didn’t know about the gambling back then, either. But having the children meant that he was there and sadly, he abused the power of that. The level of genuine love and concern became apparent after this last divorce; he did not pay one thing the Court ordered and after terrorizing us (and terrorizing our 19 year old out of the house to effect fraud), I see an occasional post on FB to that daughter. Yet he has never released the title of what is her car nor apologized. He dumped us when we were of no further “value” to him, but even now the girls are grown, he keeps the tentacles out (as he can keep track of whereabouts via the car registration address).
On your behalf (and children’s) I’m just so glad for you that you have your head on straight and have a lot more knowledge than I did. There was a time I was tempted to just run off and try to start a new life (after the first divorce) and try to explain to my children later. I couldn’t (hardly) take the stress I was being put through or not being able to see our daughters (I lost lots of time with them). In retrospect, I am glad I didn’t run off. I did end up going back to him, under what I now know were his false pretenses (he was actually afraid he would lose the children’s money, as I was doing so much better and made a new career, etc while my attorney told me I’d never get a custody change, even to “joint”). I figured the stress I was under was horrible, but HAD to be harder on our children. So I went back.
I just hope and wish all the best for and to you!
I want to say hello and let you know that you are certainly not alone. I was divorced twice from him and I only learned about the gambling problem when he filed for the second divorce. 5 years later, it still makes my head spin (in a sense) that so much could be going on that I knew nothing about, but actually, it happens a lot – the stuff that goes on before the gambling finally comes out – is what actually blows my mind.
You are certainly NOT to blame; I heard all that too, and well before I knew anything about the gambling. I did take it to heart because when I met him and his family, years ago, they seemed “together” and healthy, from the outside, while my own family was a true dysfunctional mess. Like you, my ex’s “family” (my children and I were supposed to be HIS FAMILY) or shall I say, relatives, helped him continue and even take advantage of me and our children in the unnecessarily protracted divorce. Just know that it doesn’t in a sense matter what the outside looks like; on paper, I know I (now) look like an irresponsible mess but in reality I have faced and continue to cope with what IS more than one person should have to or maybe even can.
Anyway, I learned I did have a breaking point (in 1998) after being terrorized by him and his brother for three months. It took me years and a lot of work (I NEVER had any “significant” mental health issues before) before I realized that, despite coming from a (more so at some times) “dysfunctional” family background, I actually had people who had brought me up to be responsible and accountable … but who were NOT cruel to me nor was I left alone to deal with the effects of a cruel situation that I did not create. I only say this because you likely are dealing with a lot; even now I sometimes have periods of “emotional shock” but I now recognize what is going on and can do things about it. For a really long time (back then) I was having very severe panic attacks that were not diagnosed; when I walked into therapist’s office during one, I saw a look of horror or something go across his face and “he can’t handle this” went through my own mind, so I pulled myself together. It took me a long time to figure out that they were panic attacks and how to deal with them, but I certainly should have felt confidence in a therapist! Main point is that you may very well have periods of confusion or strong emotions; having someone in your life that you can safely share these things with, someone who is not going to lead you astray, can be very helpful.
And I hope I don’t sound like I am telling you what to do, just suggestions from what I learned and have gone through. Realize that you can’t be responsible for the whole tribe (relatives, and even his father). That will wear you out and if you “make nice” with things others are doing, it will sometimes end up so outrageous nothing can hide it.
I made the choice to be HONEST with my daughters when I went back (he got custody of our children first time) and I am glad I did. My younger daughter got angry one night when I told her I couldn’t tell her “everything is going to be alright”. She was in her mid teens at that time – and I forget what the actual situation was – but I ended up telling her that if I didn’t know with at least 95% certainty, I wasn’t going to tell her that “to make her feel better”. I’m not holding that up as a model for others, necessarily, but I do know that when she was struggling with some issues that could have killed her, she was able to come to me and talk about them.
One thing I learned about trauma, both through research and experience, is the better a parent is handling it, the better the child will (usually) do. That means you pretty much HAVE TO make sure you have emotional supports of some sort, some people or somebody who knows what you are going though. Plus not trying to take the whole world on your own shoulders or try to “make up” for a lost dream, etc.
The whole experience is very painful, probably because so much of it is (at least a lot of the losses) preventable. But where I am, for example, there aren’t even any GA meetings within 100 miles … and for some reason, nobody seems to “get it” about the destruction wreaked by gambling problems. I know it took me a long time to find THIS site … I don’t even know of anything similar, especially for spouses/family, in the U.S.
I’m not on here a lot, but I hope when I am, that I will see more from you and learn you are making it through. I guess one positive is that you will learn some strengths you never knew you have and there are others. But I too tried to talk with my spouse about reconciliation, facing the issue and so on. I think I have read that something like less than 10% of those with gambling problems go into treatment.
I wish that my ex had been willing to face his issues but I can live with the fact that he chose not to. It’s not a reflection on me; I know I was a good wife and mother. But I don’t think he even saw me as “a person” … I was either “giving him what he wanted” or I was “worthless”. One is being an enabler … and the other … is the realization that you are not willing to enable.
I hope you are finding supports where you are and are, a little at a time, being able to make more sense of things and how you can get through all.
Nomore, I saw one of your posts on another thread earlier and it was very sensible etc. I was looking to see if I can find out more about you and couldn’t but then I came back here and found this. I just want to say hello and also mention that many things you said resonate with me. At times, I don’t want anything to do with (other) people; it seems much social is “much ado about nothing” but in my case, I think it has more to do with authenticity than a genuine desire to be alone (although I don’t do well if I have to be around people for long periods, I need to “recharge” or so it seems).
I’ve been having a rough time and the last day or so has just gotten to me. It seems illogical and pointless to keep trying when NOTHING goes anywhere and if I think too hard on the “reality” that I didn’t cause (“my own” problems) I just end up with all kinds of impotent anger that I can’t find any constructive outlets for.
I can’t think too hard about the two pets that we lost when I was “evicted” from the house by ex-husband’s brother (who bought it to help CG not have to pay me). I feel responsible and even though I KNOW how frazzly I was (and am) I can’t help but think that it’s my fault. But in fact, the brother refused to give one back. He was twisting the knife once again.
I also lost almost all my possessions and some very dear to me.
It is a very hard road. I was interested in what you said about your daughter working at the Aquarium. My own daughter has loved animals since she was a child and wanted to go to veterinary school and later, a place called Cat Tails. I believe it is in Washington. Instead, she is working in insurance and doing well, but it is definitely not “her love”.
I’m not on here regularly. I go out most nights and collect cans and anything else I can to get through the month. For me, it seems like an endless month … I “get through” and then it just starts all over again.
I was impressed when I saw your posts and “say hi”. I didn’t see anything for sending messages to people. But also want to say that I hope in future we can get to know each other/be a source of encouragement.
When you talk about getting out of where you are and having a place of your own (and the apparent impossibility) that is one thing that really hits home with me. My ex ran off with someone else and filed for divorce; than is when I actually learned about his gambling problem. If the divorce had gone quickly and smoothly, I probably would have the place of my own (and possessions and pets). In my case, I was punished for refusing to leave and so on. I guess that one thing I have learned in life is that sometimes, we end up in places (not always bad, either!) that we would never have ended up “but for circumstances”. Also that sometimes the impossible does become the possible – and the completed. Not saying that WILL happen for either or both, just that I guess it’s what helps me to keep going. I have “faith” but it is not blind and is being tested. I figure if I’m going through what amounts to hell on earth, there must be a reason for it or I am not “getting” something. I certainly DON’T subscribe to theories of “this” being the divine will for me (which lets everyone else off the hook, by the way!).
I will wrap for now, but just again, wanted to say hi and all, and just found the way to search and was able to read a bit more that you have written. Also to say thanks, because you have helped me without even response because I can’t believe how hard it is to find ANY resources, support or even anyone who gives a darn about what happens to spouses/children of people with gambling problems. It’s pretty clear to me that you are an intelligent person and it reassures me because I know there’s someone out there who KNOWS. What you said, too, about running long and fast and all … I have been wondering, I guess, if maybe I was wrong to stand my ground and STAY, when he demanded a divorce and told me flat out he would destroy me. We were divorced before and the children lied to and he had tried to get me cut out of their lives altogether. I think you, like me, did the best you knew and could and I KNOW that the “problem” ISN’T you or what you did/didn’t do. We are just the ones that get to cope and deal with it all.
Видях този човек да говори в разговор по TED и има абсолютно смисъл. Прочетох някои опровержения на неговите идеи; макар че мога да кажа, че има (вероятно) нещо за някои от тях, знам, че голяма част от това, което минава за "наука", не е, дори и да се финансира и "да се проверява". Изтъква се, че хората с „пълен живот/кариера/и т.н.“ могат да бъдат или да станат зависими. Мисля, че има нещо дотам, че съвпадението (между вътрешните ценности, цели и стремежи) и външните прояви на „успех“ или „свързаност“ са важни съображения. Голяма част от това, което хората „знаят“ за живота и представят като „успех“ (щастието се приравнява на същото) НЕ са знания, придобити чрез истинско учене и изследване, това са просто експозициите и очакванията, които сме имали. След като сам отидох на терапия и дори озадачен, защото според всичко нещата в (моя) живот бяха „страхотни“ … но имаше „нещо“ и наистина започнах да го забелязвам, когато лекарят предписа лекарство, което ме накара да се почувствам “ щастлив". Но разбира се, този тип „щастлив“ не е реален или траен и не води до истинския тип.
Mačiau šį vyrą kalbant TED pokalbį ir tai visiškai suprantama. Aš perskaičiau kai kuriuos jo idėjų paneigimus; Nors galiu pasakyti, kad kai kuriuose dalykuose yra (tikėtina) kažkas, aš žinau, kad didžioji dalis to, kas tinka „mokslui“, nėra, net jei ji yra finansuojama ir „recenzuojama“. Teigiama, kad žmonės, turintys „visą gyvenimą/karjerą/ir tt“, gali būti priklausomi arba tapti priklausomi. Manau, kad yra kažkas tokio, kad sutapimas (tarp vidinių vertybių, tikslų ir siekių) ir išorinės „sėkmės“ ar „ryšio“ apraiškos yra svarbūs dalykai. Didžioji dalis to, ką žmonės „žino“ apie gyvenimą ir vaizduoja „sėkmę“ (laimė tapatinama su ta pačia), NĖRA žinios, įgytos tikro mokymosi ir tyrinėjimo metu, tai tik mūsų parodymai ir lūkesčiai. Aš pats pradėjau terapiją ir net sugluminau, nes iš pirmo žvilgsnio mano gyvenime viskas buvo „puiku“ … bet buvo „kažkas“ ir aš tikrai pradėjau tai pastebėti, kai gydytojas išrašė vaistų, kurie privertė mane jaustis “. laimingas ". Bet, žinoma, toks „laimingas“ tipas nėra tikras ar ilgalaikis ir nesukelia tikro tipo.