It’s quite obvious I pissed you off a bit Jonny, and that was not my intention at all, and I do apologise for that.
You have misunderstood some things, other things you’re 100% spot on with.
You pose a few questions and I will attempt to answer them here. As it was such a lengthy post, (thank you), I’ve copied it below along with my response and thoughts about what you’ve said.
Whether you respond to this or not I’m not going to get into any sort of tit for tat argument. We will have to agree to disagree on somethings I don’t think that would be supportive or helpful for either of us, or anybody else that might read it.
1. Yes it is a large sum of money to have gambled. I never broke it down by the week. Not sure why you did… Also not sure why you started with wow?
Jonny $400K is a shocking amount, I don’t know how much you’ve earned in the last 20 years, but because you have a job which takes you interstate and out of the country I presume that you’re some sort of “professional” person. Maybe you havn’t earned $400K in the last twenty years but the huge amounts you specify you’ve lost on occasion give the impression you are/were very well paid. You are the one who put a monetary figure on your losses, I can’t see the point in that, and does it serve a purpose for you? The “wow” was my attempt at tongue in cheek sarcasm, I should have put an exclamation mark. Just because you’ve lost such an amount gambling and gambled for such a long time does not necessarily give you the knowledge to “know what you are up against”.
2. Based on you saying that I got off lightly I’m assuming your “wow” to be an insult. So to that I say you’re a douche bag for saying git like that. To say that my addiction and losses are getting off lightly is frankly a stupid thing to say to someone. To compare losses or anything else with someone especially that you’ve never met and over a computer is silly and I find it sophomoric.
I said that you got off lightly. Meaning compared to a lot of CG’s. Having any sort of addiction is catastrophic to the person it’s effecting, likewise the financial losses. That seems to be your primary concern, the financial losses, you constantly refer to how you can’t get over the amount you’ve lost in both your threads on here. If you can’t accept the amount is gone and it’s a constant thorn in your side, it will stifle your recovery. Call me what you want Jonny. I’m not comparing losses or addictions, we all have the same addiction at GT. I had to google “sophomoric” similar to “immature” that’s your opinion. This is the only way we have to communicate but by all means send your phone number to GT and ask them to pass it on, I’ll gladly give you a ring and tell you the same.
3. You said that in 10 months I was able to get out of debt. That isn’t quite how I would put it… my history is a bit more complicated than that. But if that makes you feel good to sum up things like that for me then I hope you’re happy.
It doesn’t make me feel good to sum it up like that, it dosnt make me feel anything, I made a comment based on what I’ve read. Ten months ago you said you were up to your eyeballs in debt, although you give contradicting figures of how much that debt actually was, 16K, 20K, 18K. On your day 175 you say you were out of debt. It’s a fact in the last ten months according to you, you have gotten out of debt
4. I wouldn’t have written anything and pressed enter unless I thought it was ok to say something to someone. I’m honest and spoke my mind. I wasn’t trying to be hurtful. Also, he didn’t seem to mind and actually mentioned in a post that it helped him. But I’ll let him speak to that tune and shouldn’t;t talk for him.
Of course you weren’t trying to be hurtful, I completely understand that. I just think you were wrong to suggest to a man in crisis he should consider investing.
5. Is this sarcasm that you feel envious of me? I did a lot of damage as I’m sure anyone who has chosen to hurt themselves does.I don’t buy it this and feel it’s a tactic to say something and then balance it out with an unqualified compliment.
No it wasn’t sarcasm I genuinely am envious that you have been able to quit after 20 years, just like I am envious of those who realise they have a problem much sooner than that, and take the necessary action to get into recovery. If I had have stopped gambling for good after 20 years of it, I’d be fifteen years free of it by now.
6. You said… I’m going to great lengths to justify investing money? I don’t agree. Investing and gambling are two different things. I also only mentioned this several times in a year. I don’t even understand the rational of not doing investing so lets just agree to disagree on that one. Are you saying that you should just put all excess money in a savings account?
We will have to disagree on this one, (unless you change your mind), but it stands to reason there is a risk involved with investing in any portfolio. Investments can go down as well as up. What I’m saying is that the vast majority of those that have gambled for many years will not have any excess cash for a long time to come. Let’s be honest Jonny if you’d have been saving $10 in an account every week for the past 20 years even one that didn’t pay interest or dividends it would have built up to over $10K by now. Investments are not something that someone at crisis point, somebody deep in the shit, somebody who is borrowing off Peter to pay Paul, should be considering. It may have been more constructive to suggest ways the chap could expediate his recovery, such as “try GA”
7. Did you really read my posts? I speak about gambling as more than money all the time. Didn’t I just write that the other night to someone? I’m lost by your thought process.
I have read both your threads in their entirety today, you will see I have left comments on them in previous weeks and months. I didn’t follow either thread because the times I did read a post on either it always appeared to me that you were going on about money. You will see I commented on your other thread just last week saying how I thought it was one of the most sensible I’ve ever read on here, and I’ve read a lot.
8. What does “such a good living” mean that I make? Please explain?
I don’t know how much you make Jonny. But it must be a modest amount for you to have paid of $16-$20K of debt in ten months or less. Simple arithmetic dictates you have paid at least $1600 each month off your debt, if you can do that and still live, pay for a life coach and counsellor then you must earn a good living.
9. You said… Money is important to me? Thats what you believe? We’ll you right, and many other things are important to me as well. You’re either a very rich man or a very broke man to even say a statement like that. A rich man wants to present that his money isn’t important while he hoards it. The poor man doesn’t want to believe money is important because then he would have to live upset all the time. Are you suggesting that money isn’t important? Most of us live or die by the dollar. We get to enjoy things a tad bit more when not stressing all the time about getting a meal. Are you a hunter? Do you know how to hunt? Is there an excess amount of game around you? Do you see where I’m going with this? Do your bullets not cost anything? Does heat not cost anything? Does a dwelling that protects you from the cold and elements not cost anything? If I want to eat then I have to earn. If I want to continue to eat then I have to have money in the bank. If I loose my job and want to eat I need to have some savings. Eating kind of seems important to me so I guess money is kind of important to me. Now is it as important as love, family, honesty, etc.? Thats for each individual person to decide… not some guy on GT like me or you.
What I actually said was money appears to be very important to you. I am neither rich nor poor. I don’t hoard money, neither do I lust for it. I am certainly not upset. I earn a modest living I regularily turn down overtime and extra work because I am more than happy with what I earn. An active CG lives or dies by the dollar, not me. Your hunting analogy doesn’t make sense to me, no I don’t hunt though. Most active CG’s value money greater than love, honesty and family, I know that for a fact. I can’t imagine anybody else doing that though. Of course we need money to survive, we don’t need money to invest.
10. You used my own words to I guess put me in my place or prove that you are right and I’m wrong or something? We’ll I agree with everything I wrote. When you can’t control yourself you need to have blocks in place. But if you read my posts as you claim you have… Then you would know that I also said that blocks are good but not the end all. I have to see lotto tickets if I want to buy a donut. I have to see other games if I want a soda at the the liquor store, etc. Similar to the way an alcoholic has to eat and enter establishments that sell alcohol. It’s about self control and personal growth… not blocks dude.
No Jonny I wasn’t trying to prove who is right or who is wrong, I quoted your own words back to you to remind you how desperate you were back then. Back then you KNEW that the only thing to help you was going to be removing your access to money and going to GA.
In my reply I never claimed to have read your posts, I said I had skimmed through this one. I’m pleased I took nearly three hours reading them both this morning though.
I agree about blocks or barriers not being the be all and end all, I agree it’s about self-control, but not on its own. An alcoholic does not Have to enter places that sell alcohol in order to eat.
11. You talk about gambling like thats the problem. I don’t agree. A theory of mine (at least for me) is that gambling is the symptom of a deeper rooted issue in a person. It’s starts with placing a bet. But the underlying current is the rush it gives a person. In that feeling of blissful rush you forget that you have a bunch of pent up feelings. If you can feel that rush all the time then you don’t have to deal with or feel those pent up issues. Please read some of my posts so you can better understand where I am coming from.
I agree with you on this one, well to a certain extent. I don’t agree it starts with placing a bet it begins before that, in my opinion. The rush you talk about has long since gone for me. If gambling still gives you a rush or a buzz, then regardless of the amount of days you’ve been gambling free. I think it is extremely foolish of you to rely only on self-control and personal growth to prevent you from gambling. Having access to your funds is also a no brainer in my eyes.
12. I’m not on here to help anyone really. At least not yet. I will believe I can help someone after I have one year of non gamble time. Until then I simply talk and make comments. Not really telling anyone anything. Again – please read my posts and you will see that consistency throughout.
Well I hope you’re here to get help for yourself. Whether or not you’re here to help anyone else people have commented on both your threads that your posts whether on your own threads or theirs have helped them.
Your posts have helped me today actually.
Why do you believe you have to wait until one year before you can help anyone? Do you believe you will be cured then is that a target for you?
13. I moved to another city for work this weekend. I have already reached out to friends at GA here and am going to a scheduled meeting tomorrow night at 7:30pm. I think I do have my life in some control and am seeking the help and friendships I need. I don’t appreciate you trying to use my words from when I was extremely sick/diseased to try to prove some point that is actually a meaningless point as far as I’m concerned.
Good for you in seeking out your GA friends, apart from the occasional post when you say that its maybe time to go to GA you’ve hardly mentioned it in either thread.
14. You don’t think I know what I’m up against at all? Who the heck are you to say something like that to me? This is my life and I get to manage it how I see fit. You and me are different people with different triggers, history’s, upbringings, family’s, etc.. How and why do you think you can tell me that I don’t know what I’m up against. Are you serious? Who does know what I’M up against besides me and possibly my counselor? Who has taken the time to understand the depths of me and my problems? Please enlighten me and PLEASE tell me what I’m up against that I’m not aware of? I will honestly tell you if you are correct. Please….
Who the heck am I? Just another person who has allowed himself to be continually fckd up by his compulsive gambling. I gambled more than 35 years Jonny I’m talking from my experiences, the place you’re at now I was at 15 years ago. I am a contributor on this forum as well as you are my thoughts and opinions are my own based on many years of living life as a CG and many attempts to find life in recovery. That’s who I am, I listen and respect others views and opinions and if I don’t agree with them I will tell them so. You manage your life as you see fit, nothing wrong with that except one flaw, judging by your threads here you are doing exactly the same things that you were before you stopped gambling.
15. So you’re comparing me to Nick Lesson….? Are you serious man? Maybe you should compare me to Gordon Gecco next? Or Charles Manson? How does that comparison even make sense in your mind? You’re somehow comparing my want to invest extra funds in a diversified portfolio to a sociopath thief who lied, cheated, and broke countless amounts of international banking policies and trading laws. I think that’s a bit of a stretch don’t you think? Is Nick Lesson really someone I should seek advise from? It similar to comparing a kid who steals a pack of gum to Bernie Madoff.
No I’m not comparing you to Nick Leeson. I said I wouldn’t be surprised if Nick Leeson thought the same. Meaning when he first started as an investment banker he didn’t see investing in this portfolio or that one to be gambling. He lost a lot of money, he lost it by making bad investments, he gambled with other people’s money. I wouldn’t be surprised if he did not see investing as gambling. He then progressed to lying and committing fraud. Why would I compare you to Gordon Gekko or Charles Manson? I don’t think it’s a bit of a stretch I know the obscene and perverse lengths Compulsive Gambling can take us to, it is ferocious addiction Jonny, and investments can go down as well as up. It is a gamble.
16. I came to this site suicidal. I hardly got any responses. I actually mentioned it a number of times. So you sitting here and telling me that I’m wrong for posting my feelings and theories is all bull crap to me man. People should read and hear everyone’s stories and hear their opinions. This site didn’t fix me. I did. I did by making the steps. Finding hope and getting therapy. Learning about myself. Saying no when the going got tough. Being honest with myself. Asking the hard questions to myself. I use and used this site as a diary to write on because when no one responds thats what it is.
It took a while before you got any responses I agree, you get plenty now. When no one responds there is still the helpline, the various groups and lots more good advice available. This site is far more than a diary forum, to the majority of users.
17. When is someone’s gambling “in the past” according to you? Who has that answer for that? You? When is it ok for someone to be a person again and not have to have their money held for them and portioned out? 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, never? Is that really the answer? You’re basically saying that’s it’s ok to not have any self control. Let others around you that actually have self control hold onto your money forever. How about the truth. A compulsive gambler is someone that is hurting in many ways and has very little self control. This issue isn’t really the money the issue is the lack of control to say enough is enough or make a decision to just stop and lick wounds.
The answer to that is blatantly obvious. I would say someone’s gambling is in the past from day one if they are really living a true recovery. It’s a statement of fact, if they never gamble again.
It is of course up to the individual how they conduct their business and recovery. No, the answer is not to have your money held by someone and have it portioned out. It suits me absolutely fine it does not prevent me from being a person however you may perceive me. My life has been greatly enhanced since I started having my money held by someone. I don’t have a time limit for when I’ll take control of that back, my life is working fine. Just for the record when I have a certain amount accumulated it will be put into some sort of savings account or pension fund, but not one with any sort of risk attached to it. That won’t be for at least another year or two and it serves no purpose for me to think about it just yet.
I’ve got self-control in abundance. My boss doesn’t keep every penny of mine, he doesn’t monitor my budgeting or spending, I have instant access to some funds all the time. Not great deals of money but a couple of hundred pounds, why would I need instant access to anything more than that?. It’s my payday on Friday, but I don’t need to draw my wages this week so my boss will be saving them on my behalf. The whole amount, well I’m due £369 after he’s deducted my rent and bills so I’ll get paid either 19 or 69 and he will save the rest for me, it’s no big deal. It does not prevent me from being a person, in fact it helps make me a much better one.
I have said enough is enough, I’ve said it many many times over the years though, learning from my own experiences I’ve found out that when things get on top of me that no amount of self-control and/or personal growth has ever been enough to stop me gambling once I’ve got the thought in my head, I’ve hardly ever been able to fight off urges
18. Are you really saying that a person can’t say they will never do something again and actually follow through? I think what your saying is that action speaks louder than words. If so then I think my actions are speaking for me. I haven’t gambled in close to 300 days. The reason being is because I don’t want to anymore. It doesn’t add up for me anymore. Sure I have urges to feel the rush. I have urges to see up girls skirts too. That doesn’t mean I’m going to act on it and lift upon a girls skirt. It’s again called self control.
I’m not saying that at all. But the vast majority of us, CG or not, make sweeping statements and commitments like that and never see it through. Actions do speak a lot louder than words, particularly words that have been spoken hundreds of times, just to see us fail. I’m pleased you havn’t gambled for so long, I really genuinely am pleased, like you the reason I havn’t gambled is the same as you. Because I don’t want to. We are so different though you have urges to feel the rush. I don’t. You have savings at your fingertips. I don’t. I just know if I was getting urges to gamble because I missed the rush, I would be concerned about myself. You’re a 41 year old man and you get urges to see up girls skirts? If you need to exercise self-control to stop you doing this then perhaps you should seek some help Jonny I don’t think that’s natural.
Those are my responses. But In summary, you asked me what is different now? What has changed? Why can I have access to money now and not before? You asked me if just saying I won’t gamble anymore is enough? I think I am a bit different now. I think I have more control. I’ve gotten help and paid for it from a professional counselor. I’ve been doing TM. I’ve been working out. Walking as best I can with two bad legs and a bad back. Exercising. cooking. Making sure to spend ample quality time with my pet. Traveling. I’ve been to some GA meetings. Been speaking with old sponsors. Constantly posting on this site and on other threads when I have time. I’ve been honest with everyone in my life and made amends. I’ve been honest with myself. I’ve worked extremely hard to begin to forgive myself and let it go so I can move on and enjoy just one day at a time. I take the time to talk to people and treat everyone with love and care. I try to smile, stop, and breathe when I see something beautiful like a falling leaf from as tree, a butterfly, or just the simple beauty of the sky. I work my tail off. I save every cent and don’t spend any extra cash on anything. I give eye contact and smile at people. I have hope in my life. I have love in my life (although I wish I had more). I have something to do everyday. I have someone and something that believes in me. A person can only do so much to put themselves in a position to be able to have more self control and stop hurting. I’ve put these things in place and am working hard at building a life back. feel I’m far from done. I would also add that life is about the journey… Not just the ending point. Enjoy the journey… My journey is my journey and I do get to make up the rules for my journey. DO I wish I would have zigged instead of zagging. Yes. but it’s still my journey. I can only do what I can to have the best journey possible. I don’t want to live in the past. I don’t want to live in tomorrow. I want to just enjoy being in the moment and hope for more.
You said that I make a lot of money. Please let me know what that number is? It’s interesting that you added up that $400000 over 20 years is around $380 or something. So basically I had $400000 extra or so in 20 years… I was dead broke and in debt up to my eyeballs. I was homeless for close to a decade and spend every cent I earned gambling. Those numbers don’t really add up to someone who has made a ton of money over a 20 year span. You mention that I make this or that. The reality is actually this… I work 12 hour days pretty much 6 days a week. I have had roughly a week off in the last 10 months. I have travelled out of the country and to many states to keep working. 10 months ago I had a MAJOR back surgery and suffered from nerve death/loss in my calf (this was tested 3 months ago or so). The nerve is dead (that means it doesn’t work). And I keep working… and keep chugging along. I paid off my debts and have been saving. I try my best to work out the rest of my body so I can actually walk. I’m in constant pain day in and day out but don’t take any pain meds as well. I’m guessing you want to lecture me on how I will eventually get addicted to pain meds next or are you only a gambling and and compulsive gambling expert?
As I said in my post full credit to you for what you have achieved 10 months off gambling is terrific. I see life and recovery completely different to how you do. We are two very different people, one thing unites us though. We are both compulsive gamblers. That is not all we are but it is part of us. I may take my recovery too seriously you may think, I don’t think you’re taking yours seriously enough. What does it matter? As long as we both continue our journeys and manage to sustain happiness along the way.
I don’t want to lecture you about getting addicted to pain meds, the thought never crossed my mind. But saying as you brought the subject up I would be wary. You mentioned in your early posts that you were also addicted to weed (pot) and you’ve never mentioned it for ages. I hope you’re managing to live without it now, judging by your very angry post I would think that you probably are. Unless it’s just poor quality or you’re immune to it now. Ive seen a couple of documentaries lately about drug use actually and a lot of class A drug abusers started off with weed. Then prescription opiate based pain killers. So yes, watch what you’re doing be careful.
I’m not an expert in anything Jonny but I have a great deal more experience with gambling than you. I’ve also seen many people claim to have it finally sorted out, only to come crashing and falling down. Many of those people made the mistakes that I think you are making. I’m not saying that you’re setting yourself up for a fall, but I don’t think you’ve been particularly honest with yourself. I think you show many signs of complacency and after reading both of your threads I can see a great amount of contradictions and inconsistencies.
All this post mate because you couldn’t accept the critical comment I made because you suggested to a struggling gambler to consider investing in some investment savings scheme.
It was nonsense for you to post that to him, and nonsense for you to reply to my criticism in such a manner.
I’m not trying to be a jerk. But as you can see I found you note to be a bit pushy and not spot on.
I’m pleased you’re not trying to be a jerk, I appreciate you found me to be pushy and incorrect, and obviously that feeling is mutual.
I asked you some questions and would appreciate a follow up response as well.
I’ve dignified this post with a full response Jonny, I’ll carry on using this forum as I have done for the last 8 years or so, I will always look in on your threads and genuinely do hope to see your 298 days grow and grow into years and decades.
I said above I don’t think you’ve been entirely honest with yourself, please have a look back at your posts see how many times you’ve said you’ve wanted to gamble, you’ve had an urge or you miss the rush, is this really recovery for you? What’s the big issue with having your mother hold your money?
You were homeless for nigh on as decade, why not mention this in either of your threads mate? I see that you said you lived on the streets a while, 4 months I think you said. It’s awful to have to do that, I’ve been there many times in my life, as well as prison, and worse places.
I do not think you know what you are up against if you think self-control is enough, I think you are deluded.