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Hi Dear Kathryn
It is the problem with all we try and teach each other isn’t it? Change can mean that we are no longer enamoured with the person we shared our lives with.
It works both ways and there is little that can be done without communication. Your husband has obviously not taken a great deal of interest in the addiction that has been in your lives and as a result has not realised that he has a large part to play for a successful conclusion. You have done all the work and he has stood still.
It is so hard for non-CGs to accept they have to change. It is so easy to say – ‘well the problem isn’t mine!’ It is so easy to demand a change in someone else but it is so hard to change ourselves.
I had a great problem in Gamanon with the admittance of ‘my’ wrongs. What the hell were they talking about – I had suffered, I had been wronged? I am aware, because I chose to follow the Gamanon route, even whilst not accepting everything I was told, that to make a difference I had to grow and learn. I spent weeks in a room with people who did not change one iota and had no intention of changing. Their CGs were down the corridor working on their lives and they were in Gamanon moaning endlessly about their trials and tribulations – I understand many are still there!
The main reason I changed was because having spent a few weeks or maybe even months joining in with them, I began to see that they were miserable and bitter as they ensured that their CGs suffered for the rest of their lives in compensation for what they had been through.
It sounds to me that although your husband has not set about making your life a misery – his inability to see that he had a part to play is holding the pair of you back.
Can he ever be what you want him to be Kathryn or has it gone too far? Could you love this man if he changed and is it possible for him to change enough for you? I think it is important to know what ‘you’ want.
I am not with Vera on this and I think that telling your son his dad is a coward would be wrong. Whatever else your husband has or has not done, he has stuck by you and the children and at times he was probably pushed very hard.
Is the problem between you and your husband or is it his treatment of the children? Sometimes things have to blow up to change and from what you say he was blissfully unaware. I agree you are your children’s advocate but surely so is he? You are saying ‘my’ children not ‘our’ children – does he really deserve that? Maybe he does.
Dear Kathryn, you know I am not judging but trying to understand and intercede. I hope that matters cool enough for you both to speak without anger. If you really no longer want to live with this man please don’t hang too much guilt on him or make him jump through impossible hoops. Not all relationships work or can work and there is no shame in calling it a day but after 19 years it must be worth fighting for a little. Know what it is that ‘you’ want just as you did when you changed your life – change things for the better again – you have proved you can do it. He really might not have understood and might not have realised you were unhappy. Men and women are different and they place different ideals on the way things should be, neither side need be completely wrong and neither side will be completely right. You have made it plain to him now that you are unhappy – maybe he can pull the rabbit out of the hat but please know if that is what you really want?
Be careful with your heart and above all be true to yourself and stay strong.
V
Hi Mark
Many non addicts do not always tackle their problems in a rational way although I agree they do not usually set themselves on a path of self destruction! You, however, are tackling your temporary glitch with a logical rationality and loads of common sense. I admire you for it and appreciate the importance of writing your post which I have had the privilege of reading and which as an F&F member has brought me great warmth.
I wish you success in your search for another job but I am convinced that having those important friends around you and supporting you, along with the courage you have shown in controlling your addiction, is more important.
I will be happy if, when I face the next difficult patch that life chucks up at me, I can face it with as much fortitude as you have shown. The bravery that you and others like you have faced against such a terrible adversary makes you very special and I eagerly look forward to reading more positive posts from you.
Velvet
Hi Twilight
I feel compelled to write to you having just read another of your posts supporting a CG – something I think you would never have envisaged yourself doing at the beginning
You have come so far since you first alighted in F&F. You are a Twilight star, shedding light into dark corners on this forum. The voice of a child of a CG is a voice that is seldom heard. So many children cannot give voice or put their message across but you do it for them. In my opinion it should cause us all to pause awhile and think.
Well done
VHi Hopeful
If you are still reading – please give us an update. Once you are on the forum radar you will not be forgotten.
V
Hi Linda
I think that his whole body showing signs that he had gambled is something to make you be more on your guard than usual. Your partner is not using any support in his attempt to live gamble-free and dry-gambling is often the way that a CG with the idea that he doesn’t need support can handle himself for a while until complacency takes over and money becomes involved again.
The traits are every bit to be feared as the loss of money – in my opinion more so. It is the traits that screw up the non-CG more than loss of money. Loss of money, I think, is the visible pointer to the addiction but not the cause. Loss of money is something the non-CG can see and I think makes the gamble easier for us to understand. In the meantime worrying about your partner’s behaviour is not giving you joy, peace or happiness. He is worrying you and that worry is something that maybe ***** to be addressed. He is pushing his boundaries by going out with his mates and staying out until the wee hours on a regular basis. CGs who want a life-time being gamble-free recognise and stop pushing their boundaries as part of their acceptance of their addiction.
I have said I will put something on to the forum about dry-gambling and hope to do so in the next few days but in essence your partner is possibly gambling in his head with his phone in the loo. Dry-gamblers give reign to their addiction without using money but when (not if) the money comes back into the equation; they can gamble money with a vengeance. The gamble in their heads is to try and satisfy their addiction but without others, who understand them, supporting them and encouraging them to a more positive approach they, stumble. I have yet to hear of anyone who has cracked this addiction without support.
I certainly don’t want to frighten you but I would not be true to myself if I did not pose the thought to you that your partner might have not have lost money for about 4 months but from the behaviour you have mentioned he has not been gamble-free.
Don’t underestimate the power of the addiction. You turned the router off and he was p….. off and ***** – which are signs of an active addiction although, I accept, could also be signs of just having his freedom to do as he wished removed. Whichever though,the fact that no money was lost was not, unfortunately, clear evidence that he had not been gambling.
Stay vigilant and keep on the ball as you have been doing.
V
Hi Geordie
Don’t be disgusted that your daughter didn’t ring. Trust can take for ever and children must be the hardest of all to prove your worth to. She is possibly terrified to trust. Twilight’s post will tell you that.
We cannot put ourselves in other people’s shoes however hard we try. You know what is going on in your heart – she doesn’t. It took me over two years to begin to trust and I am supposed to be the adult in all this – the child is a much more tender plant. She might take all you say with a pinch of salt but that is her only protection. Please, never feel disgust with her – she will want her dad to be true but she cannot know that he is.
She has less experience of life than you – keep on the road of recovery and she will learn to trust – she will want to, it is fear of being let down that prevents her feeling it. Keep the conversations going and never think that she is a disappointment because she isn’t. She is ‘your’ child. She ***** you to be the person that she hopes you are but as yet she is still a little afraid to trust you with her heart.
We have to go the extra mile as parents Geordie. We cannot make our children see things our way because we say so. We have to give them time and example just as our parents gave us. It can be a thankless task but we didn’t bring them into this world to thank us. Never give up – she deserves to have a dad who will be there for her.
I wish you both well
V
Hi Looby
I cannot tell you what to do but I feel that any more emails and texts to someone who is saying they want to be left alone is only going to aggravate that person and the situation and not help. As you have found in the past communications can be twisted and I am sure your son is quite aware that you love him but does not understand that love.
Your quiet, best ***** have been when you were separated by lack of communication. Communication, I think, can be enabling when it is being abused by the CG. Your son has turned his phone off – his choice. If your son is gambling it is his choice. All the texts, messages and talking seem to be achieving little and in my opinion, it is because he is determined to prove that he can keep his addiction in the face of all those who care, as long as he gets confirmation that you are all still there doing the soul-destroying for him.
I agree with Geordie that we cannot know rock bottom. We would consider that sleeping rough, not even having our own clothes to stand up in, going to prison would be rock bottom but we are not CGs. I believe it to be a mental state too and we cannot fathom it.
From all you say it is doubtful whether he still had a job when he turned up on your doorstep and maybe there was no payday and has been no further gamble – just a web of lies but it makes little difference.
Hubby is right to worry about ‘your’ metal state. Both of you, in my view, need to look after yourselves. It is good that your friends are really trying to understand. Maybe the four of you can help each other build a life separate from the gambling that is causing so much distress and talk about other things and focus on other things whilst knowing the understanding is there.
Dear Looby – in my opinion, you, your friends and daughter are giving too much of yourselves to dealing your son’s addiction whilst your son is not bothering at all. He says he does not want communication and he is the only person who can change his life. Words written and said are rolling off him and causing you further distress. He is determined to have his addiction. I don’t think that telling him anything face to face or any other way is going to make a scrap of difference, although maybe it could alienate him further. I stress that this is my opinion. For me, the more I gave the longer it went on. Every action I took seemed to make things worse until I took no action. Why it ended when it did is beyond me but it was not me that ended it.
Look after yourself Looby
V
Hi Pinky
W/b to the Forum. I understand the feeling of vulnerability and of course speaking in the group and communicating with the helpline is the safest way to remain anonymous.
I know that you want to talk more than just when the group is open though so I am glad you are back on here. I do have the capacity to read between the lines so don’t worry about updating information that would draw attention specifically to you. We are here to support you, not worry you.
You have a wonderful gift for humour – keep it burning but also let your sad feelings out. A bit of wallowing is fine and we would not be human if we didn’t do it. We cannot be a tower of strength 24 hours a day but as long as we achieve it for some of the time our strength will grow.
Nobody knows, better than you, how hard you are having to work at your future and how well you are doing. Care for yourself by giving yourself praise where praise is due because you deserve it.
I am sorry that I did not reply to your post of 6th March. It is because I have had the pleasure of your company elsewere on the site. Well done on having the courage to post again.
V
Dear Kathryn,
You know that I don’t understand but I am on the sidelines cheering you on.
I do have some ‘not so good thoughts’ about Dames going to your club and I think that you show that you are the stronger by far in resisting. He is a selfish ….. …… ……. !! sorry couldn’t help myself.
Being F&F does not mean that we are understanding, kind and considerate. We are human beings without an addiction but we can have some pretty nasty traits too. I am always so sad when I hear that a CG who has made such a courageous fight for their life is let down by the selfishness of an F or F.
I can think of nothing redeeming to say about Dames at the moment so I will sign off but I will say thank you so very much for contributing to the F&F topic group. We need CGs to help us know what we have done or are doing wrong – for instance it would be good if Dames understood a lot more. I think I am not alone in glaring at the screen when I read about his behaviour.!! F&F’s concern is often understanding what is right if a relationship is to continue and coming to terms with what went wrong. We can get no better guidance than a CG who has committed their life to being gamble-free and is willing to share with us. Thank you. xx
It is such terrific news about Bailey and I am so pleased. I hope he goes from strength to strength.
Loads of Love and well done on being strong xxxxxxxxxxxx
V xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Velvet
Hi Kathryn
I do preface my reply with ‘I don’t know about your husband but as a non-CG the following is my take on your post’.
I have only ever been in a casino once. It was seedy and strange and I have no desire to go back. It seems that nowadays though they are places where friends go for an evening. Did you husband go with a crowd of mates and feel he could not be the one to be left out? The sheep instinct is common with a lot of people and you have risen above that but maybe he feels he doesn’t have to make the effort. Maybe he feels his actions harmless.
Is it his lie that has hurt you or is it the fact he has gambled?
Have you asked him not to gamble?
Do you feel he should stand shoulder to shoulder with you?
I am trying to understand why he did it and also why you are so upset. I think he can be interested, I think he can care but he hasn’t got the addiction and maybe thinks ‘why not?’ It is not my way but that is me.
I think if it is a lie about gambling that has upset you – maybe you should ask him why he lied rather than why he gambled! Don’t go berserk but listen. Allow him to tell you if he felt weak. If you descend on him like a ton of bricks you will never find the truth and if there is another time it will be hidden x
Don’t let this damage you. You have been through too much and succeeded.
How did you get on with Bailey? I hope it was a successful meeting for both of you
Love as Ever
V xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Dear Kathryn
I am glad you have forgiven yourself. I know that if I had died when my CG was active I would hope that he would have forgiven himself. I think it is so sad that people carry the burden for something they can do nothing about. We cannot ever say ‘what if’ things had been different because they were not and such thoughts do us no good.
None of us get the chance, I think, to say all we would like to say to another and death is such a great divider. I know my parents loved me and I loved them but occasionally I cringe at the thought of some of my behaviour growing up and wish I could change it but I can’t. I know they would only have told me I was daft to worry as all they wanted was my happiness just as your sister would have wanted yours.
I would love to think that my family would think of my ‘departure’ with such thoughts as you have. If they raised a glass of Amaretto for me on my birthday I would like to think they knew I was happy for them.
I wish Neicy a happy birthday too and a special day for her kid sister who has come so far and of whom she would be very, very proud.
I will be thinking about you and Bailey tomorrow. I think it is great that you are ‘both’ looking forward to it.
With loads of love to a very special person and her beautiful boy.
V xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hiya Kathryn
Good to see you back up on top and to hear that all is well in K-land.
that’s it really – just wanted to say ‘hi’.
Loads of Love
V xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Kathryn
You are the first person I know who has ever described dreaming about their Dad and woken up crying.
When I dream about my Mum and Dad I wake up thinking that they are still alive and then I go through grief as I remember they are not and I always cry. I want to go back to sleep and dream them alive again. They are so real and as you say the feelings are so raw. I lost my Dad in 1980 and my Mum in 1984 but the dreams are so vivid and so real. It is a painful way to start the day, so I feel for you.
How good this site is that through sharing we can feel less alone with deep thoughts that affect us.
My head is full of my Mum and Dad now but the thoughts are lovely and not sad so thank you for writing your post
Good morning Kathryn
and
Goodnight from me xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Dear Kathryn
It wouldn’t have done Bailey’s teacher any harm to see a parent as concerned as you. I’m sure he has had enough of the demanding, complaining type but a woman who is distraught should get a good message through to him and hopefully help him to appreciate how serious your concern is and how much he needs to keep a careful and kind eye on Bailey.
As a fellow bubbler at embarrassing times – I apprecate what a clot you can feel but I have decided I would rather be the person capable of floods of tears at inapprorate moments than someone who doesn’t care. Have you ever laughed tlll you cried – can be quite painful?
You are on the case with Bailey and I don’t thnk he could have greater or more understanding support. With you behind him I doubt he will be so unhappy. Teen years are a time when some unhappiness is par for the course I think – it is called growing up.
Chldren who find things a bit difficult often turn out the best xxx
Loads of Love
V xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Kathryn
I will cross everything but I don’t believe in luck. You deserve to be treated well. You are a fully paid up member of society and a credit to all who know you.
I think that Bettie’s answer to obtaining a peaceful marriage may be going a little far, even though it would probably work! Deaf ears work too and are far less drastic (no prison sentence involved) – I’ve got a good pair. You ‘know’ you are not to blame so put plugs in your lugs, think about Bettie’s rock and smile enigmatically.
Love
V xxxxxxxx