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Hi Adele
You did better than me in my first group and I didn’t try again for weeks – well done on coming in to Community Groups so quickly. I know my rusty typing skills increased to a rate my teachers would never have be***ved me capable of! Another good thing I have wrested from the addiction.
If you did things wrong you did it for the right reasons. The addiction to gamble ****** on us not knowing how to cope with it – why should we? We are bound up in honesty and trust with someone close to us.
I don’t think you will – but please don’t apologise too much – you were being decent whereas he was not.
I am also not a person given to tears but I shed my fair share over this addiction and probably more as the realization of what it was all about, sank in. I think maybe we allow ourselves the luxury of tears when the fighting without understand stops.
The depths of his bad behaviour are not surprising. I read your paragraph about your husband not being manipulative or conniving in nature because he is not creative enough and yet he found ways. I t seems to be saying that he has diametrically different characteristics and this I understand and I be***ve is what those who are looking in, do not understand. It is why the analogy of creating a separate entity for the addiction appeals t me as someone who loves a CG but is not recognised professionally. Of course the addict has the addiction – they are not really separate. There is no cure, our loved ones will always be CGs.
I also know the ‘hurry up lets talk’situation and then the knowledge that you are defeated by ‘whatever’ it is that is going on. It is symptomatic of the addiction that a CG will behave as though past behaviour has not happened and so they wait for the non-CG to speak. As soon as a conversation is started the addiction is ready to blame the non-CG and *** about everything to protect itself. My CG said that when he said ‘give me time to get my coat off before you start’ what he was really saying was ‘she is going to give me a hard time and I need my addiction to be ready’.
Your husband had nothing he could say, to assuage you – his addiction was manipulating the conversation, protecting itself, trying to weigh up how serious the attack was and how it could side-step the arguments – he was gambling that you would give up.
Might I suggest you encourage him to contact the helpline as he appears to be getting something from this site, and/or start a thread of his own – if he is confident in his addiction, what has got to lose? CGs know other CGs better than we ever will. We have many good threads running – a recent one is by Uncontrolled called ‘The Journey Starts today’ and another is ‘Anniversay’ by Colin in Brum. They are only two in many but both of them were in danger of losing everything, until Uncontrolled came to this site and Colin to GA.
Your husband is a good age to weight up the wreckage he has left behind him. You are regaining your confidence and self-esteem and you will not be part of the wreckage he has to deal with and that will support him tremendously.
Without our recovery the CG has the greater struggle. Our recoveries take a long time but only because I think we go on a learning curve that takes us into every part of our lives with what we learn. I am not the person I was before the addiction came into my life; I am certainly not the blob I was when the addiction was in my life.
I will be back next week although I have a group tonight if you want to hone your typing skills again.
I am not seeking to put a dampener on your hopes but talking about doing something and actually doing it is a big step, until he ‘does’ something rather than talking about it, keep every barrier up and trust nothing. Trust take a long time – I cannot give you a length of time. I trust my CG to look after his recovery – I can do no more. all I can say is that he is doing well. As far as this forum goes, however, I be***ve it is the fact that I am doing well that ****** and of course I can move mountains!
Velvet
You may never know what results come from your actions but if your nothing there will be no results – Mahatma Gandi
Hi BB
You have been inadvertently caught up in the cycle of the addiction to gamble and not known where to turn – I’m glad you have found this site where there is no judgement – just understanding.
You have been up one moment and down the next – the roller coaster whipping you along and gradually taking away your control – it is time to put the brakes on so that you can get off.
I hope to read in your next post that he did attend GA and how he has reacted. It is common for a CG to come home and say they are not as bad as the others – whatever he says, listen but don’t judge – what actually happens he may not tell you the truth. I did once hear that whatever their reaction they never forget the words at the first meeting.
I hope that this site can be your rock. It is a lonely life with the addiction to gamble in it but I will walk with you for as long as you want me to.
Unfortunately I am going away for a few days I am going to bring my thread ‘The F&F cycle’ up for your – I hope it helps to see that you are understood.
With regard to telling your children we have focussed on this in our friends and family topic forum which is the forum below this. Maybe there is something there that could help. My suggestion is that you should gather as much knowledge as you can about the addiction to gamble before you tell others because it is easier to impart the knowledge dispassionately, without leaving an opening for opinions – just questions.
You have done well taking his credit cards and he has done well giving them to you. These are starter point for a recovery.
Your confidence and self-esteem will have been flattened by your husband’s addiction and although it doesn’t see too great an answer, looking after yourself is the best thing you can do for both of you. It works because your mind will have been full of your husband’s addiction too and it has been pulling the string of your life. Taking back control is important –‘you’ are important. You cannot make your husband stop gambling but you can make a difference.
You have done nothing wrong – without knowledge you never stood a chance and the addiction knew it. Between us we will reverse that misunderstanding and you will realise that you are stronger than your husband who is controlled – you are not, you are free.
I might get a change to speak to you tomorrow but if not I will write again soon. In the meantime, know you are among those who understand.
Well done writing your first post.
Velvet
Dear Adele
It was great to see you in a group – it does go fast I know, but you did well.
I am struggling to find the time to keep up with all the posts at the moment – I hope I answered some of your concerns when I spoke to you.
This is just to say I haven’t forgotten and I will go through all your points carefully hopefully before I take my break from Friday to Tuesday in Scotland.
Velvet
Hi Juju
I said I would write but I have not had time to do so ear***r and I apologise.
I am not a be***ver that we should always trust a gut instinct but when it comes to the addiction to gamble it is probably better for your health and safety not to trust when you see the red flags f***** as you have.
I understood only too well your conflict with you IPad present – you wanted to be***ve it was ok but your fears could not be allayed. Unfortunately if his addiction is still active you would have been right to not trust but his addiction would have been pleased to see your confusion.
You may have seen the following on other threads but because it has been so useful to so many as a coping mechanism, although it is not recognized professionally, I do repeat it for you because you are trying so hard to make sense of the senseless and I know it is not possible.
Imagine your husband’s addiction as a slavering beast in the corner of the room. As long as you keep your cool and don’t threaten that addiction it stays quiet, although forever watchful.
Your husband is controlled by that addiction but you are not. When you threaten that addiction, it comes between you and controls the conversation. How often have you found yourself in the middle of an argument and not know how you got there? The addiction wanted that row. It is the master of threats and manipulation and you are not. Once it is between you, you will only hear the addiction speak and because it only knows ***s and deceit, it will seek to make you feel blame and demoralize you. When you speak the addiction distorts your words and your husband cannot comprehend your meaning.
My CG explained it to me by saying that when I told him (for instance) that if he didn’t *** but lived honestly he would be happy, his addiction was distorting his mind convincing him that I was ***** because he truly be***ved that he was unlovable, worthless and a failure – he was lost and fought back because he didn’t have any other coping mechanism. The addiction is all about failure for the CG which has no love for the addict or those who love them. However much your husband convinces you that he is in control – he is not.
Did it help to write your first post which was so brilliant? Another massive coping mechanism that I used was to write a secret journal. I took all the pain and put it in writing – never to be read by anyone. I used to take things that had hurt me and type furiously with spelling mistakes, capital letters, underlining and strong swearing with words I never use out loud . My fingers learned to move like wild-fire and when I had finished each session I would feel drained but there was also a feeling of release, as that particular pain was no longer whizzing round my brain causing me to lose my ability to cope. I never re-read what I had written but printed the pages off and I kept them in a secret file. I didn’t feel the need to re-read them because somewhere other than my mind my pain was held for me.
I have also heard about people writing things that hurt them and then burning them but I didn’t want to destroy what I had done – it was like an external hard-drive for my mind – a place to hold my pain.
I did eventually destroy them when my CG changed his life but even then I destroyed them over a long period, one page at a time. Nothing about this addiction comes quickly or easily.
It is my be***f and hope that you will gain strength by sharing on these pages. I don’t know what your outcome will be – over the years our members have travelled on every road and arrived at many different destinations but none of those outcomes are ever judged, we have to make of our lives what we will. I be***ve that with knowledge though we can make informed decisions.
I will close now but I hope this will help you understand that you cannot make your husband feel your pain but what you can do is to look after the person who matters most and that is ‘you’. As a victim of this addiction we are powerless but once we realise that we are in control of our lives we can move mountains.
Please write again soon – now you are on our radar, we do care.
Velvet
Hi Waikanae
It is good to hear from you again. Although your outcome was not the one you fought for you have changed and you are better equipped for your future. You have put yourself in a better position physically, financially and mentally and this sadness you feel, I really believe, will pass.
Yes you did try your best – I know that. I remember your lovely posts, full of strength and determination – a strength and determination your husband did not share, which was not your fault. We cannot save everybody and your husband it seems was determined to resist.
Your husband is not struggling alone – he has his addiction with him, the addiction that he chooses to keep in his life.
The first days are bound to be the worst. I would like to say remember the peace you got when you were away from the addiction but I suspect a large part of your mind was always with it. In time it won’t be. With regard to the image of him falling – I can relate to that – I cannot tell you what to do – but if it was me I would let the image move on – let him fall and then see him bounce a bit, watch him struggle a bit but then stand up and walk away. The image is in ‘your’ mind and you can change it. Our minds are capable of moving on from bad images if we want them it enough and you are strong enough to do it.
Will you stay in NZ?
I hope the following will at least make you smile and maybe give you food for thought
One day a farmer’s donkey fell down into a well.
The animal cried piteously for hours as the farmer tried to figure out what to do.
Finally, he decided the animal was old, and the well needed to be covered up anyway
It just wasn’t worth it to retrieve the donkey.
He invited all his neighbours to come over and help him.
They all grabbed a shovel and began to shovel dirt into the well.
At first, the donkey realized what was happening and cried horribly.
Then, to everyone’s amazement he quieted down
A few shovel loads later, the farmer finally looked down the well.
He was astonished at what he saw.
With each shovel of dirt that hit his back,
the donkey was doing something amazing.
He would shake it off and take a step up.
As the farmer’s neighbors continued to shovel dirt on top of the animal,
he would shake it off and take a step up.
Pretty soon, everyone was amazed as the donkey
stepped up over the edge of the well and happily trotted off!
Life is going to shovel dirt on you, all kinds of dirt.
The trick to getting out of the well is to shake it off and take a step up.
Each of our troubles is a stepping stone.
We can get out of the deepest wells just by not stopping,
never giving up! Shake it off and take a step up.
It is time for you to have the normal life you crave. All the ups and down you have lived through have been like the dirt on the donkey but you have climbed up – you can and will survive.
You were supporting his life at the expense of your own and that didn’t help you and ultimately didn’t change him – you could do no more.
I am saddened that you are sad but I hope that in time you will return and update once again because I believe you are a success to this forum. Grieve for the end of your relationship but rejoice that the addiction will not harm you further.
Thank you for coming back with this update – I have often wondered how you were
Velvet
Hi Juju
I was just closing down for the night when I saw an F&F member, Chasing Pavements – Adele, in ‘My Journal’ and I followed her across. I’m glad I did because you are now in the Friends and Family section and you are very welcome.
I’m glad you were welcomed by Adele and Bettie. Bettie like so many others on here are willing to help non-CGs (compulsive gamblers) because they are living in control of their addiction. She and others like her make this site special – we are a total community who care.
It is late for me here Juju but I will write more to you – I just wanted to say hi.
Your post contains many things that need answering and I won’t try and answer it all when I am tired,as you deserve more than that.
At the moment, you don’t know whether to trust or not. In my opinion, based on all you have written you would be unwise to trust.
Your parents probably cannot understand – unless a person has lived with the addiction I am not sure they can fully understand. In this forum you are understood however and every word you have said in this post makes sense to me.
Your husband’s addiction is not your fault – nothing you have done has caused this to happen. You have been trying to make sense of something that is senseless. The addiction makes fools of us all – compulsive gambler and those who love them alike. We can only change our ‘own’ behaviour however – we cannot make a CG stop gambling.
Adele is right – knowledge of the addiction to gamble will help you cope. With understanding I believe you can rebuild your self-esteem and confidence.
You said your husband fell asleep when you were telling him how you felt. A CG can feign sleep to protect the addiction but his addiction was probably awake and listening. I will write to you soon and hopefully give you coping mechanisms to help you feel in control of your life.
I hope you know now that you are among those who understand you and will not judge.
Your first post was brilliant. I suspect it took a lot out of you to write it but at the same time I would imagine it was therapeutic. Well done for getting it down so well.
We have a Friends and Family group at 20.00 hours UK time today – you will be welcome. We communicate in real time and nothing said in the group appears on the forum. I hope to write to you again before then however.
Velvet
Hi nnfc
I have loved and hated too and I can’t explain how it works. I think when a question keeps returning with no answer it is best to put it on a back-burner until you are ready – and you will be.
Self-deprecation is common and used by CGs as an effective form of manipulation. It is important, in my opinion, not to feel pity or join in with such a conversation..
I think if it was me, maybe I would say something like ‘if that is how you feel there is little point in talking about it’ and walk away the reason being because there is little point in talking about it. He is right – he can’t be trusted, he is wrong – he can change, he is wrong – he is not a bad person.
Stuck on the wall beside me is the quote ‘I have often regretted my speech, never my silence’. Some people have found it helps and maybe it is the ‘something different’ you could try. I would imagine you tried to make him feel better when he was seeking pity but if you did you could not succeed. He could hear the words but not the meaning because his addiction was between you.
You don’t have to explain the difference between a CG throwing the family’s money away when there is surplus and throwing it away when there is debt. The addiction to gamble unfortunately gets worse unless it is treated and it is the behaviour that goes with it that is unacceptable too.
Have you spoken to any of your children about their father’s gambling?
I am sorry it has been a time since I spoke to you – the forum is busy these days and there are not enough hours in the days sometimes. You are on our radar though and you would be welcome in a Friends and Family group at any time – nothing said in the group appears on the forum.
Hoping to hear
Velvet
Hi Muckalow
How are you and what is the position with your CG?
Your husband probably meant what he said when he made the pact with his family and friends but when it came to the date that had been agreed, he didn’t have the determination to carry it through. He would probably have built himself up for such a date and that build up, in itself, would have had his brain in a spin and a spinning brain is not condusive to a good early recovery.
You mention close friends and family being aware of your husband’s problem. That is really good and will be a substantial support for him when he does take a real leap of faith.
Are the friends and family who know, all aware that enablement feeds the addition and helps it to thrive. As long as I enabled my CG, he could not rake up the courage to make his stand. We have focussed on enablement in the F&F topic forum below this – I know it is not easy – giving money to a CG is the same as giving a drink to an *********. Money does not have any meaning apart from a tool with which to gamble so if anybody lends him money, helps him with his gambling debts, gives him free rent, accompanies him to where he gambles – they are enabling. The addiction is divisive and unity between those who care is so important.
I am not sure if it is a female instinct to know when there is wrong in the house – I certainly knew it, although I didn’t know what ‘it’ was. I am sure men can know it too.
Do you know where he goes when you throw him out? What happened when he got paid?
I think it is possible for a CG to ‘try’ too hard. It is important that he gets the right support when he does start his recovery. It takes great courage and there is a massive void to fill. It is good if those around him help him fill his time with good thoughts and good things to do. Other CGs walking with him will help him tremendously too because they understand him as you and I cannot.
How are you coping with him away? It is important for you that you fill your time too and do things perhaps you had stopped doing when the addiction was in your home.
‘If’ you haven’t thrown him out please still post – I did all the wrong things for all the right reasons for 25 years and I know how difficult it is to remove the addiction from your home when you love the man who owns it.
There will never be any judgement on this forum
Speak soon and perhaps pop into a group
Velvet
Hi Adele
I did Google for info on Chasing Pavements – I am not the brightest when it comes to modern pop music. I had at least heard of Adele – I have even seen pictures but since Roy Orbison I have been in oblivion when it comes to pop.
Your post gave me some thoughts having read why you chose your username. At the moment you feel that there is ‘nothing there’ but if there was something there what would that mean to you?
Not everybody’s relationship survives the addiction to gamble but I have found that those who have survived have some of the most successful relationships I know. You don’t have to answer this but I wonder how old your husband is. Sometimes it seems there has to be enough damage behind before the CG realises that it is their addiction that is hurting them and those around them.
As I have said previously I cannot tell you what to do but I do know that chasing after a CG is as useless as them chasing after their debts – nothing changes until someone stops and I think the non-CG, with knowledge, can stop their old behaviour and confuse the addiction.. Both chases are futile but when this is realised and accepted, in my opinion, it time to do something different. Running in the other direction is an option. Learning about the addiction and how it works, – putting the non-CG in the driving seat of their life is another option – it was mine.
For the past two years, I would imagine that you have had your husband’s addictive behaviour and gambling filling your mind and the more it fills, the less time there is for you. By looking after yourself and putting your interests first you change the status quo – you are refusing to live with the addiction controlling you – instead of running after it you are confronting it without words.
Your husband’s mind has been filling itself with addiction so it controls him. It is important to realise that we cannot stop a CG gambling – they need the right treatment to help them tip some of that addiction out to leave room for decent thoughts and love. We have had CGs change their lives on this site, there are dedicated counsellors, rehabs and GA. CGs can and do help each other when they decide to dedicate their lives to being gamble free. You felt guided here and you are understood – your husband might need similar guidance t where he is understood. I have no idea why my CG decided, at the time he did, that he had had enough – I know we were estranged but he had made a rare phone call and I mentioned Gordon House – the rehab in the UK. Two and half hours later he was applying and his roller coaster began to grind to a halt after 25 years.
At the top of this page click on to ‘Resources’ and in ‘Location’ scroll down to ‘world’. Click ‘Gambling help’ and then ‘Search’. Scroll down to ‘Gamblers anonymous – Twenty Questions’. Most compulsive gamblers will answer yes to at least seven of these questions. In my opinion most members who have lived with the compulsion to gamble will also be able to answer yes to at leave seven of those questions. Maybe you could print them off – maybe he will read them and realize he is not alone – I hope it will help him realize that you are seeking help and treating his addiction seriously even if he is not. I think it is not good to thrust them on the CG but to leave them where he will see them – to thrust them is to confront and the addiction will take control.
Hope some of this helps. Ask any questions you like and I will do my best.
Velvet
Hi Sarah
In my case it is my son that is a CG. He is gamble-free for 6 years and determined on a life-time of being so. They don’t reform Sarah – they live in control of their addiction but there is no cure. Like Jenny, I accept that my CGs life will always be a work in progress but then isn’t that true of all of us who are trying to live a good life. It is the personal experiences and how we deal with them that make us who we are and many things change us as we go along. Living for 25 years with the addiction to gamble has made me the person writing to you now. I am stronger for the experience. I have made the decision that the best revenge I can have on that which hurt me for so long is to help others fight it – I couldn’t have done that 7 years ago – I have taken something from the addiction and it pleases me.
I have married friends whose husbands are living gamble-free, one couple for 18 years, I do have their stories in my head when I write.
My CG changed his life in the Gordon House rehab which you can see details of on the forum page further down under GMA residential treatment Q&A.
It is hard to support without enabling but sowing the seeds of recovery is something we can all do, as is looking after ourselves. Many CGs have changed their new lives on this site. There is ‘My Journal’ forum for CGs and CG only groups, we have a helpline for you and your husband. There is GA, dedicated addiction counsellors and rehabs. I believe in letting a CG know that their loved one is seeking help. At the top of this page click on to ‘Resources’ and in ‘Location’ scroll down to ‘world’. Click ‘Gambling help’ and then ‘Search’. Scroll down to ‘Gamblers anonymous – Twenty Questions’. Most compulsive gamblers will answer yes to at least seven of these questions. In my opinion most members who have lived with the compulsion to gamble will also be able to answer yes to at leave seven of those questions.
I cannot tell you what to do but I believe it is unwise to thrust information at a CG – perhaps you could leave the 20 questions ***** around having ticked them yourself. He might screw them up and throw them away but maybe he will glance first and know that he is not alone.
Speak soon
Velvet
Hi Adele
I have done my homework this morning and now know that ‘Chasing Pavements’ is sung by Adele but your name is Adele to me now though, so I hope that is ok.
I have edited a couple of rep***s that you have had because it is not for any of us to tell another member what they should do. Your story belongs solely to you, you are asking for support to get the next chapter right – the outcome of your book is not determined by anybody else.
Do you have family and friends who are aware of your worry? Unfortunately unless people have lived with the addiction to gamble, their opinions can be very narrow and not supportive. Personally I think it is best to tell others as a statement rather than asking for opinions. You are going to get your knowledge here and you can make your own informed decisions with that knowledge. At no time will I tell you either to leave or to stay – everything will be in your hands.
I am not sure whether you are saying you don’t love your husband and/or you don’t love the man who is gambling with your life. You say you miss him desperately and I understand this because he is lost in addiction and you are walking through the fog of his addiction, without a map and cannot find him.
I don’t know how much you have read on the site and I don’t want to tell you lots of things you already know. Does your husband accept he has a problem?
Although it is not recognized professionally the following is a coping method that many of us have used at the beginning of our recovery to help us cope.
Imagine your husband’s addiction as a slavering beast in the corner of the room. As long as you keep your cool and don’t threaten that addiction it stays quiet, although it ever sleeps.
Your husband is controlled by that addiction but you are not. When you threaten that addiction, it comes between you and controls the conversation or argument – how often have you found yourself in the middle of an argument without knowing how you got there – that is the addiction enjoyng confrontation that drives you further into confusion. It is the master of threats and manipulation and you are not. Once it is between you, you will only hear the addiction speak and because it only knows ***s and deceit, it will seek to make you feel blame and demoralize you. When you speak the addiction distorts your words and your husband cannot comprehend your meaning.
My CG explained it to me by saying that when I told him (for instance) that if he didn’t *** but lived honestly he would be happy, his addiction was distorting his mind convincing him that I was ***** because he truly be***ved that he was unlovable, worthless and a failure and did not deserve happiness – he was lost and fought back because he didn’t have any other coping mechanism apart from gambling. The addiction is all about failure for the CG which has no love for the addict or those who love them. However much your husband convinces you that he is in control – he is not.
We do have Friends and Family groups where you will be welcome – the ***** are in the box at the top of this page on the right. We can communicate in real time. Nothing said in that group appears on the forum.
You are strong – you just don’t feel it.
Please post soon, knowing you are among friends.
Velvet
Dear Adele
Your grievances are not petty, you do need healing and I hope you feel you have come to a place that is right for you – you are certainly very welcome.
The most important line I feel in your post is that you feel your spirit is slowly dying and that is what I hope sharing time with us on this forum will change for you. If our spirits die it is because we allow them to die but you have the ability to change. You have untapped strengths, your husband’s addiction is his – nor yours.
I did not recognise my CG and I could not love the active CG, my house was a disaster, my life was a mess but I don’t deserve admiration for changing my life. There comes a point where I think we have to make a choice but I believe it is better to make choices when we are fully informed and that is what I would want you to be.
I cannot tell you what to do. I believe that given time you will know what is right for you. I don’t think you should run after anybody and I don’t think you should give up on you – I know that was not quite what you meant but it is my first thought.
I was closing my computer, as I was going to bed, when I saw your post but I will write to you tomorrow. You were very brave to write such a post and I’m glad you did.
If you read this before I get a chance to write again – please tell me a bit about what your marriage was like before the addiction took hold. Do you have children?
You are not alone Adele. I will walk with you for as long as you need me. I understand and will continue to understand, all you say.
I don’t know whether you know the words of ‘Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow’ but I hope they help.
There are two days in every week about which we should not worry; two days which should be kept free from fear and apprehension.
One of these days is yesterday with its mistakes and cares, its faults and blunders, its aches and pains. Al the money in the world cannot bring back yesterday. Yesterday has passed forever beyond our control. We cannot undo a single act we performed. We cannot ***** a single word we said. Yesterday is gone.
The other day we should not worry about is tomorrow with its possible adversities, its burdens, its large promise or poor performance. Tomorrow is also beyond our immediae control.
Tomorrow’s sun will rise, either in splendour or behnd a mask of clouds – but it will rise. Until it does, we have no stake in tomorrow, for it is as yet unborn.
This leaves only one day – TODAY. Any person can fight the battles of just one day. It is only when you and I add the burdens of these two awful eternities – yesterday and tomorrow – that we break down. It is not the experience of today that drives people mad – it is the remorse or bitterness of something which hapened yesterday and the dread of what tomorrow may bring. Let us therefore LIVE BUT ONE DAY AT A TIME.
I will write soon
Velvet