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Dear Adele
Gambling for points is still gambling. He is making ‘mind bets’. Some newly abstinent gamblers say that what they are keeping track of is what abstinence has saved or cost them. Mind bets are not an uncommon way to remain in action. However the gambler may start to get ‘juiced’ and be unable to shake off the excitement.
I have asked about blockers for android phones before and I think the answer was there was nothing on the market but I will check again. Does he have to have an android phone? It would be good if you could encourage him to change his phone to a basic model – in the interests of his recovery.
CGs do appreciate the barriers when they cannot react to triggers because it gives them time to think – not possessing a phone on which he can gamble seems to me to be an excellent barrier. It is not treating him like a child – it is assisting him in his quest for the recovery he says he wants.
Dear Adele – you want to believe so much but I would be failing you if I did not tell you to strengthen you barriers. I’m afraid it is too early to believe him so readily and he possibly did not respond to your text saying you believed him because it was all he wanted to hear.
I know you know it but I will say it anyway – he is a CG and CGs tell lies and manipulate. Accepting that our loves ones are CGs is harder than we realise at first. We want to save and really understanding that we cannot is very difficult.
Looking after you today is still more important than anything. At the moment it appears that you are working harder at his recovery than he is. I think you did well getting him to admit he had gambled but I think it would be good if you reinforce your willingness to help him only if he helps himself – provided you can say it and mean it.
You are doing well with your posts – you are getting things down and that will help you when you look back.
I will write again tomorrow but I wanted to get these thoughts down tonight. They have come out a bit blunt but they are as always accompanied with your interests at heart.
Velvet
Hi mnn
whenever I see the word ‘need’ I have to read it twice.
Hi mnn
Whenever I see the word ‘need’ I have to read it twice.
My CG who lives in control of his addiction said that what my ‘need’ was when he was actively pursuing his addiction was not ‘his’ need. His sole need was to gamble and my ***** were irrelevant. My ‘need’ was that he obeyed my rules and did not bring his addiction under my roof – his need, although not deliberate, was that he did. I lived with his addiction in my life for 25 years and I did all the wrong things for all the right reasons because ‘I did not know’ what was wrong until the last couple of years and by then, quite frankly, I didn’t believe it – my mind was stretched too far.
The addiction to gamble is in the mind – it is not something that can be medicated against – it requires proper treatment. Never underestimate it. If you think he has ****** from you the chances are that he has. Know in advance what your action will be if he betrays your trust – his addiction is forever awake and ready to defend itself. If you doubt yourself it will see the crack in your defence. My own attitude is that I will never again allow the addiction to gamble into my life. It is a question of getting your own mind strong to the possibilities and meaning what you say.
Without wishing to be a scare-monger – I believe your wife is possibly the most vulnerable and the one he could seek out for enablement. The tears, the lies, the manipulation are incredible and make a person without the addiction doubt their sanity.
Friends and Family often bemoan the fact that they have become like detectives – that is not how they see themselves or want to live their lives. Fortunately when the non-CG comes out of the shadow of the addiction such behaviour does go away. I fully appreciate you do not want to be a jailor but equally I don’t want your brother to make you and your wife feel imprisoned by his addiction.
Perhaps you could look in our other forum ‘My journal’. It is for CGs who are trying to live in control of their addiction and where I am glad to say where many, many are succeeding. They would be the first to tell you not to underestimate them – but that is because they have accepted their addiction.
Keep posting
Velvet
Hi Bling
As I said to you – your fiancé does not conform to the usual CG but his behaviour is that of a CG.
I’m afraid that thinking a man is ‘a good man at heart’ does not preclude him from being less than good. He has gambled with his home and now he thinks that you can pick up the pieces which doesn’t seem right to me.
I think you require legal advice. From what you say he is not in a position to sue you for anything and the mere fact that he threatened you with such action is not acceptable behaviour. It certainly is not, in my opinion, a good basis for a relationship.
As I said last night I cannot tell you what to do. Having listened to you – I know that if it was me I would not let this man move in to my house permanently.
I don’t know what State you live in but I have read many ***** that couples in some States are liable for the debts of each other – you do not deserve to have your security you have built up for yourself, threatened.
I believe it would be good for you to take a step back in this relationship – I think that, that is what you wanted to do which is why you came on this site. I think you are not sure of the steps to take to remove yourself gently. I accept that you say you love him and love is often what gets in the way of us doing the right thing for ourselves. In my opinion, ***** you, or even suggesting it, is not the act of a loving man.
Please check on your legal position. Put your mind at rest about the ***** suggestions. I find them ludicrous but I believe you should hear it from a legal representative. Make sure that you can, if you wish, rescind your offer of a home without come-back on you.
It is always easier to let someone in to your home, who is seeking enablement than it is to get them out once they are in.
From what you have said, this man is extremely manipulative.
I look forward to hearing from you further
Velvet
Hi mnn
The answer you would like to have given would have fallen on deaf ears.
The following is an adaptation of something I often use. It is not recognised by professionals as a way of dealing with the addiction but it is something that many of us have used that has helped. I hope it helps you understand your brother’s addiction a little better.
Imagine your brother’s addiction as a slavering beast in the corner of the room. As long as you keep your cool and don’t threaten that addiction it stays quiet, although it ever sleeps.
Your brother is controlled by that addiction but you are not. When you threaten that addiction, it comes between you and controls the conversation or argument. If you might find yourself in the middle of an argument without knowing how you got there – it will be the addiction pulling the strings, enjoying the confrontation and aiming to drive you further into confusion. It is the master of threats and manipulation and you are not. Once it is between you, you will only hear the addiction speak and because it only knows ***s and deceit, it will seek to make you feel blame and demoralize you. When you speak the addiction distorts your words and your brother cannot comprehend your meaning.
My CG explained it to me by saying that when I told him (for instance) that if he didn’t *** but lived honestly he would be happy, his addiction was distorting his mind convincing him that I was ***** because he truly be***ved that he was unlovable, worthless and a failure and did not deserve happiness – he was lost and fought back because he didn’t have any other coping mechanism apart from gambling. The addiction is all about failure for the CG which has no love for the addict or those who love them. However much your brother convinces you that he is in control – he is not.
The addiction is now in your home but remember at all ***** it is your home – the home that you and your wife have worked for, which your brother’s addiction will covet.
It certainly sounds as though your brother has not accepted his addiction. The addiction to gamble has nothing to do with money. It is impossible, I think for the non-CG to know what it is like to own the addiction – we have an understanding of money that the CG lacks. Money is just a tool – a means to an end and the end is the gamble.
It is sad but your brother’s addiction would have known that family would care – it is a selfish addiction and as long as it has enablement it will grow.
Determine that you will not have the addiction in your home. You have every right to lay down rules about staying with you – it would be right to tell him that an understanding of all that you have done for him is that he will seek help.
Click on ‘Resources’ at the top of this page, Select ‘World’ and ‘Gambling Help’ and ‘Search’. Scroll down to Gamblers anonymous – Twenty Questions. If you print them off it might help you brother to realise that just ticking 7 yesses means he has a recognisable addiction – the chances are he could tick all 20. Put them where he can see them – it is best, I think not to confront him with them because he will deny he has a problem. He might screw them up and throw them away but hopefully he might not.
Keep posting
Velvet
HI mnn
I came back to write as I said I would and I saw all your replies. I think I will await a reaction from you before I write again.
Velvet
Hi Adele
I loved your post.
How you feel is more important than anything. All first F&F posts start with information on the CG but behind that CG and writing that post, is someone who has taken a metaphorical beating and ***** healing.
Ban negative body language from your vocabulary.
If you are concerned about being over-weight don’t become a slave to scales – if a weigh-in makes you feel a failure all day – break the habit. Live in the present – today is the only day that ******. Don’t buy jeans or dresses that will fit you when you lose weight but wear clothes that you love and fit you now.
You deserve respect and kindness. Don’t use food as an excuse or exercise as a punishment. Look after yourself. I am sure you have a captivating smile that has not been seen nearly enough recently – dig it out – try it in the mirror, I am sure it is amazing.
Stick post-its on your mirror that will give you a boost – who else will greet your every morning with ‘smile you are wonderful’. Remind yourself daily of how good life can be.
Find new focuses – worrying about CGs all the time leads to self-destructive feelings so getting busy as you have started doing is good. Pursue interests that make you feel better. The more interesting you feel the more attractive you are to others.
You can’t always control what happens to you but you can control how your react. Patience is not easy for me either but sometimes it is necessary. Allow time for others to change and adjust to the new you. Seize opportunities and focus on daily pleasures.
Avoid making a catastrophe out of something that is not the end of the world. If something worries you, step back and ask yourself if it will matter in a few months time and write it on here. Get it out of your head where it will fester if it left.
Make all your positive changes last and last but not least – keep posting. What did you achieve today?
Velvet
Dear Ell
Your husband is hoping you can trust him but realises how difficult it is for you, he says he is prepared to go on seeing the counsellor because you are worried. My initial thought is to let him.
Your peace of mind is important. Trust takes ages following the experience you have had and cannot be hurried. When it comes, it is a revelation, you will feel lighter and freer but you don’t feel that yet. The trust I have for my CG is that I trust him to look after his addiction and live a gamble-free life. I cannot and should not allow myself to forget that he is a CG. I know that he is aware every day that he is a CG, that he has to make a daily affirmation to live that day without gambling and that is what he does. This is what I trust. I don’t need him to talk about it, nor do I find the need to talk about it, or worry about it – that is my trust.
What do we mean when we say we trust another human being? I trust my husband and by that I mean he is a good man who has not hurt me. I don’t say ‘yet’ because that is not what we say – but how do I know? Trust is not something we can see – it is confidence in another but that other person is human, not divine. Your husband is a good man who has an addiction, that addiction hurt your relationship and from all you have said and all his words that you have relayed, he has realised that if he wanted his Ell – he had to change. He has done the best he can but the debts are still hurting. You still have to work long difficult hours to keep your lives balanced. The memories are still too fresh.
Do you still have the gambling conversations?
I am sure you are explaining yourself well to your husband but the gambling conversations with a CG who is really trying to live gamble-free means that the CG cannot trust the person they love completely either. There comes a time when we have to take a leap of faith too if we want a healthy relationship.
Dear Ell – I know how scary it is – I am not sure at what point I knew that I had let go of the past – in some ways just writing this to you is like hearing it for the first time. Don’t be anxious – it will not hurt him to keep seeing the counsellor for a time but doing it to please you could be difficult for him because he ***** his chance to prove to you that he can be trusted and also to himself.
Is he going to GA or does he have any other support apart from this counsellor? This site is also available in Greek.
Speak soon
V
Hi mnn
Welcome to Gambling Therapy.
In answer to your last questions – no you cannot trust him – he cannot trust himself so you certainly should not. I recommend you look at betfilter.com and install a block on your computer.
Knowledge of the addiction to gamble is the best way to cope with it. You cannot stop your brother gambling – only he can do that and he has to want to do it. He ***** the right treatment if he wants to control his addiction which is every bit as serious as ***** and alcohol. Giving money to a CG (compulsive gambler) is the same as giving a drink to an ********* – it feeds the addiction.
The addiction to gamble drastically changes the reality of the CG to fit their personal perception, it is the master of manipulation and threats, it is cajoling and friendly when it wants enablement and vicious and unpleasant when it is threatened.
The addiction is divisive and seeks enablement by dividing families. Please make sure that you and your wife unite against his addiction. .
I wouldn’t be writing on here if I didn’t know that the addiction to gamble can be controlled and there is no age that is too late for recovery. You have given your brother a tremendous opportunity to change but his addiction is strong. I think it is important that you lay your boundaries down quickly and adhere to them – it is good that he knows you will not tolerate his addiction hurting you or your wife.
I cannot tell you what to do but I hope you ensure that your property and finances are secure.
Your brother is not bad – he would never have known when he first gambled that this terrible addiction was going to be his lot in life. By the time he might have been aware it would have been too late for a simple answer.
I hope you will look at our Friends and Family topic forum which is just below this forum. We focus on specific issues that are fairly common.
There is a lot to say and I have come upon your post late in the evening but I will write to you tomorrow.
Velvet
Dear Adele
I will write to you tomorrow.
VDear Ell
I will write to your tomorrow. I will think too.
V
Hi BB
I don’t think there is a soul on this site CG or non-CG who would not recognise themselves in your post of 2nd June. You are wanting, as everybody on this site, is wanting – normal.
I do not for one second consider you a *****. Standing against this addiction is incredibly hard and I don’t think any one of us would not have understood the depth of your feelings. Don’t worry that you will become hard. I am still soft inside – I promise you.
You latest post is terrific and totally the message I am trying to convey. It is hard not to pussy-foot around when the message you are trying to give is blunt and painful but only when we really take it on board do we change. You are right – we cannot make a CG stop gambling. It is sad but many do pay lip service to GA but as long as he is going, there is always the hope that someone will say the words he ***** to hear. His addiction works on triggers and recoveries do too.
Perhaps you could ask him to put some of your worries to his fellow members to gauge their reaction. This I believe does a couple of things – it puts your message over to him and then I believe it is strengthened by the group backing your thoughts. CGs often read F&F on this site and I know it gives many of them pain but they are hearing what other people, rather than their particular loves ones, are saying. I have heard some say, they get more from reading F&F than anything else. We don’t write for them – they are anonymous and someone else’s loved ones – we are not trying to send a message and they know that. What we are doing, inadvertently, is backing up what ‘their’ loves ones have been trying to say.
Keep going with your thinking – I know it seems a massive hurdle but once you cross it the running is smoother.
Speak soon
V
Hi BB
I think you did absolutely great. You didn’t allow his addiction to pull the strings. You didn’t chase after him and plead. You were cool.
Keep it going – mean what you say and know that you mean it. Try not to backslide because he only has to see the green light once.
Forcing GA is not ideal but along with all the other things you are doing I cannot fault your actions. It was great to hear that once he has gone he felt better for going. You are not frog-marching him to the meetings – you are giving serious ultimatums and you mean them. It is the knowledge that you mean them that puts you in control.
You have started a different ball rolling and you are controlling it – you are making a difference. It stems from your confidence and your self-belief – they are powerful things and they are the things that are lost when the addiction takes control.
Nobody can predict an outcome with a CG but once you started putting your boundaries up you gave your CG’s addiction a kick. Your CG knows now that you are not in the enablement game – that you are not going to play, which hopefully will give him the push into a true recovery that he will not only keep his relationship alive but will bring him peace of mind and a gamble-free life.
I am hopefully getting over a virus that has knocked the stuffing out of me over the past few days but I will look for further updates from you.
Well done
Velvet
Hi Adele
Has anything new occurred to make you feel like writing as you have? I am closing down now for a few days but I hope you will use the helpline and/or the other groups.
I don’t think money is the substance – it is purely the tool, the means to the end. I don’t think that non-CGs can understand it.
Look after yourself
V
Dear Jodie
It is so good to get an update. I don’t forget once I have got to ‘know’ someone.
Unfortunately because you are in the UK I have to suggest that you seek your support now from gamcare.co.uk who are funded for the UK while we are not.
I am not rejecting you, I am re-directing you to the support that is available for the UK and I hope you find it everything you need it to be.
I hope that you get to the point where you no longer allow your CG’s addiction to hurt you – it saddens me to hear he is still able to do so. It is good to hear though that you know what you have to do to stop him hurting you and also to hear that you do not financially enable him.
It has been a pleasure to know you, you are strong and special so don’t forget it. I shall miss you Jodie but you will be in good hands with gamcare. Funding is stretched everywhere for this addiction and I have no choice.
Velvet x
Hi BB
I’m afraid that no amount of worrying if he ‘gets it’ make any difference – it will only wear you out more.
He won’t see what he has done to his life because as yet he can’t afford to look. To look would be to see and if he sees, he will know what he has done and if he knows what he has done, he will have to take responsibility for his actions and that takes such courage. If your husband goes to GA , I hope he will be in a good group and that they will help him take his blinker off and face his demons – he ***** the right support to help him move forward.
I would never ask that you block your loved one out but you can refuse to live with his addiction and mean it. By taking care of yourself you are giving him the best support possible. He will not have wanted to bring you down but his addiction will take you all the way if you allow it and then you are part of the damage he has to fix.
He will need time to come to grips with what he has done to you and the children if he is to live gamble-free. Unfortunately those who love CGs cannot make their loved one stop gambling – other CGs, dedicated counsellors and GA can do that – they can understand your husband as you and I cannot.
It is not ‘walking away’ to look after you and your children first. Your husband is unable to take responsibility for you all and it falls to you, to support him by doing so.
I have a group in an hour and a half and maybe you could join it and we could communicate in real time. I am going away tomorrow and will look for you on my return.
I don’t know if you know the Serenity Prayer which we say in the last 5 minutes of our Tuesday group and which your husband will say tonight if he goes to GA. It is
God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change
Courage to change the things I can
And widom to know the difference.
I also like the other version which is
God Grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change
Courage to change the one thing that I can
And wisdom to know it is me.
When you have tried everything else and it hasn’t worked – it is time to try something new. You have almost certainly have been putting your husband first for a long time and his addiction will benefit from that – support him by looking after you.
Hope that makes sense but please keep asking questions – you will find your balance and with knowledge you will be able to make informed decisions.
Velvet