[velvet]

Dear Ell
It was great to see you yesterday evening.  
You are doing so well
V

[velvet]

Hi Jenny
My CG has always said that you can’t save ‘em all and I am sorry to say he is right.  
You have certainly been led a dance – I felt your highs and your lows as you progressed along.  
The rehab can only help those who really want to change.   You have tried so hard, he has had so many chances.   So much energy has been wasted trying to give him what he said he wanted but obviously he didn’t want it enough.
The focus has now to be on you and your boys.  
This time Jenny – you have to be stronger than you have ever been before.   You are vulnerable – all non-CGs who expend so much energy trying to give their loved one a life in control of their addiction find it hard to really let go.   You have given him opportunity upon opportunity, he has been through rehab twice and still he continues to allow his addiction control of his life.   I cannot tell you what to do, as you so well know, but in my opinion you should really batten down the hatches this time, put the shutters up, jump the sinking ship, call it a day, throw in the towel and any other method of self-preservation.  
It would be great to believe that the addiction had finished meddling with your life but he does appear to be on a length of elastic and I know how convincing he is.  
Jenny ‘if’ he tries to re-enter your life, please use this forum and groups – you are worth so much more than all the rotten treatment you have had.   I will never judge, I couldn’t begin to – I know what the addiction sounds like knocking at the door.  
Some people don’t every get it – we have Twilight’s father to teach us that.   In my opinion you have given enough BUT if you feel any weakening of your resolve come back and talk.  
Healing takes time – it is gradual and exhausting but ultimately it is a walk back to life.   I have had to heal from a few things in my life and sometimes it feels the pain will last for ever.   The only person that can change our life is ourselves and we do it by living for today and enjoying the wonderful things that are in our lives – yes even grotty teenagers.   Recovery can only be one day at a time but the days do add up and one day the thing that we thought would destroy us becomes a distant memory.
By the way if you want to write – ignore the nosey parkers.  Anyone who wishes to turn your story into malicious gossip has never understood what a person has experienced living with the addiction to gamble – so their opinions will never be worth listening to. 
Support others only if you feel ready for it or walk away from this site and know that you have done well – you have been a terrific supporter to many, including me.
I wish you and your boys so much happiness.    
V 
 

[velvet]

Hi So
Taking a break is the right thing to do – eventually moving on and not looking back is the natural order of things as well.   This site is here, in my opinion, for F&F for a period in their lives but a period they should be able to leave behind.  
There will always be the hope that this promise will be the one that changes everything but just as the non-CG can never be sure, neither can the CG, who can never promise to say they will never gamble again.  
We are the ones who can change and know that we mean it but it is a terrifying jump especially when you love someone as much as you so obviously love your CG. 
He really does not ‘want’ to be a CG – his addiction sabotages him because it sits on his shoulder and he has never shaken it off.  Gambling is all around him and other people can ‘enjoy’ it and walk away – why can’t he?   In one way he doesn’t want to because the gamble is so important to him – how will he cope without that wonderful buzz?   He completely forgets the downside when he gambles and his total misery afterwards is real but in his gamble-distorted brain it is not his responsibility that he has failed.  
I think for many non-CG the final straw is one too many repeats of the same old story – when you knew what would happen in advance.   ‘When’ that final straw comes is as difficult to be sure of, as the real determination to change for the CG.   Why today – why this time?   These are unanswerable questions.  I believe that ‘rock bottom’ is the time when it does happen but as that is a mental state it cannot be seen by others.
The longer periods of clear headedness will hopefully stick in his mind – it is, I think, better that there are such periods even if the final leap, to really take control, does take longer.  
Loving someone enough to let them go because of this addiction is the hardest but in my view, the greatest act of love.  
Forget feeling guilt – I never did get round to tightening my boot laces until far too much water had passed under far too many bridges.  
You are right that the questions you are posing yourself will get you nowhere.   I can answer one  I believe – and that is that you were never just a game to him.  
My first husband left me with 3 children under the age of 6 – I didn’t think I could ever trust again.   I am celebrating another wedding anniversary soon for a long-term happy marriage where I trust implicitly.   I also trust my CG that he will look after himself and use the tools he has to confirm that every day he will not gamble.   I can live with both these trusts and live in contentment.   You will trust again I am sure.  
Just as the raspberries will go over – next year there will be the promise of new.   Take each day So and live it – one day you will look back and remember this site and the sadness you felt but it will not hurt.  
You are obviously a cracking person with a lovely personality – you will succeed.  
V
 

[velvet]

Hi Mnn
I think most of us who have lived with the addiction know the feeling that home does not feel like home anymore and it seems that that only person who doesn’t ‘feel’ the irritation is the CG.  
I like Berber’s suggestion that maybe you could find somewhere he could go, where his addiction could not do any damage and give you a well-deserved break.   You mentioned shelters before – do they offer respite facilities?  
I saw he was alone one night a week but is he eating with you most evenings?   Are you going out because he is there?   
It sounds as though the addiction is pulling the strings somewhat and your home life is suffering.   CGs do not want to listen to things they do not want to hear but it is really important, in my opinion, for you to prioritise, in your mind again, that he is a CG and as a CG he will have behaviour traits that are difficult/impossible to live with and that he ***** the right support to help take control of his life.   At the moment he is allowing you to do his worrying, smell his tobacco and listen to his idle chat.
Perhaps you could suggest evenings where he doesn’t come in with you and your wife at all.   Your brother is with you because he has messed up his life and if it was me I would be inclined towards suggesting the invitation is open only as long as he seeks help and gets a part time job that takes him out of your home.   His addiction is selfish.    If life is too easy for your brother he is not going to lift a finger to help himself.
Did you have any agreement about what would happen if one or the other parties in your arrangement was not happy or is the invitation open to him ad infinitum?  
I have likened active CGs to the Prodigal Son many ***** myself, however your brother’s addiction will suck the bones of the fatted cow dry if you don’t put your foot down.  
You said before that you did not want to be your brother’s jailor but if you are not careful you will feel imprisoned by an addiction that you do no own.   I think it would help if your brother was aware that you ‘know’ he is a CG even if he will not accept it and that seeking help is important to the success of his ‘visit’ with you.  In a GA group he would find others that he could talk to – CGs who want to change their lives forge terrific bonds.  Perhaps you could find the addresses where groups meet and give them to you brother.  
I hope this makes sense.   I believe that feelings of irritation should not be repressed but I know that hollering at the addiction is a waste of energy.   It is important to let off steam or you could implode and that will not do you or your wife any good.  I found that writing down all my confused thoughts was therapeutic but I’m afraid that for me the top of the pressure cooker just blew off in the end.    I want to support you so that this does not happen to you.
Keep posting and think of ways to improve ‘your’ life first before making your brother too comfortable.
Velvet
 
 
 

[velvet]

Hiya Adele
Hooray for sister – anything or anybody that keeps you active and away from the constant niggling about gambling is good.   It helps when you are eventually faced with having to think about it, to be clearer headed and more positive..  
I think it is great that you are more at peace with yourself than you have been for a long time.   You are aware that there may be slightly stormier ***** ahead  but – here you, fully aware of the capabilities of the addiction and yet you are feeling at peace.  That is a woman on a mission.  
You are making the most of the calm ***** – you are gaining in strength. You are enjoying other things in life and dare I say it – not spending every day looking at this site which is not always a healthy option when you want to pull back from the constant buzz of hearing the addiction. 
I understand what you mean when you say that even if the gambling was controlled your husband might still have problems which would be, for many, unacceptable and that is something that only you can decide about.   A thief who becomes a CG and then controls their addiction will almost certainly still be a thief.  A CG who steals to satisfy the addiction and then controls that addiction will almost certainly not be a thief.  
The information as to what brought the CG to the professional has to come from the client, or loved one (if they are included), but the dissembling of that information comes from expertise, experience, understanding and years of training.   A good therapist/counsellor will help the client dig in to their inner self but if the client is determined not to allow the therapist in, the job is almost impossible – hence the requirement that the CG has to want to stop.  Having supported the client to dig deep and bring up the issues that have lain buried they can  teach how to use the tools for the future.      Personally I would go on recommendation – we have access to a lot more information on the ability of professionals these days and I would use every bit of it.    I went to a counsellor and a psychiatrist on the recommendation of my doctor – but I don’t think even my doctor had a clue about the addiction and the counselling made me feel worse and more alone than before.   The psychiatrist thankfully did help me understand that I did not have Alzheimer’s disease but after a time that information did not help either.  My problem was that I didn’t know what I was looking for  – but you do.  
With regard to how they learn about side issues – if you take this forum, the first post is solely about the CG.   It takes time to learn about the author of the post but I know a lot about you just by continuing along a path together.   You are an incredibly capable human being and you know what you want from a counsellor – even if you think you don’t.   I know I cannot tell you what to do but having found the right counsellor it is my belief, that the CG is better off seeing that counsellor alone.     It does involve a lot of trust but I know, for instance, that I would not have been helpful to the counsellors who gave my CG the ability to dig deep into himself for his answers and who gave him the tools to live his life in control of his addiction.    I believe that our recovery follows a different path and is equally important.   The paths might converge but it is better, in my opinion, that regardless of the outcome, the non-CG walks their path separately.
I think ‘you’ will know if the counsellor your husband sees is up to the mark.   When a CG changes they lay a massive burden down and the lightness that comes from that act is visible – especially when you are as aware as you are.
I accept that your husband may have looked sincere and humble and I believe that getting you ‘straightened out’ is the best thing you can do for you and for him – however ‘straightening you out’ is not his answer.   You are not being ‘straightened out’ so that you can live with and tolerate his addiction.   ‘You’ do not make your husband gamble.   ‘You’ do not make your husband look at ****.  
I find your words about wanting a ‘better marriage than you had before the addiction’ to be positive.   None of us can truly know when the addiction did start – the CG can usually only guess.   However I don’t find it strange at all that you think that if a better future is possible you will have the addiction to thank.   I don’t thank my CG’s addiction because it caused him too much pain but I do probably have a better relationship with him than would have been possible without adversity.   Many families have different adversities and working through them can create better relationships.   I believe that the addiction to gamble is one of the greatest adversities but can, if we allow it, be turned into a great education. 
Thank goodness for the slave driver.   It sounds as though you are doing a great job and I am sure the end result will make all the aching bones worthwhile.  
V
  
          
 

[velvet]

Hi San
Come of San – get back to feeling empowered because you are –  you can do this.   
He is certainly resourceful and a survivor – now you have to dig into your emotional resources and survive too.  
I cannot tell you what to do but I do hope you can now stop compromising your finances, your relationship and your life. 
I hope to hear you feeling more positive – you are definitely not stupid but you are on a painful learning curve – parents do not want their children to suffer and being tough does not come naturally.   It takes a lot of bashing in to your head that to love a CG is to be tough – nobody could learn it quickly.
Hope to speak to you in real time soon 
V 
 

[velvet]

Dear Ell
You are an amazing woman.   I too would struggle not be***ve the evidence of my own eyes but I agree your husband cannot prove that he did not take the money.  
If he told you that he had taken the money what would your reaction be?   I suspect that whatever did happen your husband will be shaking in his shoes at the wrath that would come down on him if he said he had ****.   It is, I be***ve, one of the greatest conundrums the non-CG faces – the ***** is worse than the loss of money but the CG cannot comprehend that.   They will *** through fear and maybe it is a justified fear – we are, as you so rightly say, only human and as humans whose trust is shaken, we feel great anger.
I agree that you will always know what is in the box and I think it is unwise to forget.   It is possible to close the box though, with a struggle and I admire your wisdom in doing so the way you are.
Find the model Ell – it does exist.   I t does mean, I think, that some***** we have to be silent but if necessary there are ***** we have to roar.   Unfortunately roaring against the addiction to gamble does not make it listen but the non-CG ***** the outlet – this forum is always here for that.  The middle road is of course ‘discussion’, keeping the lines of communication open and the CG aware that you have not forgotten, without constantly reminding them in an obvious way.    Certainly I be***ve that cash should never be left ***** around or easily accessible – rather than seeing it as lack of trust, I see it as fighting the addiction on the loved one’s behalf.
I have guests for the weekend ‘again’ but I will be back next week to read your thread.  I suspect that he did take the money because in a lapse of complacency he be***ved he was not a CG – he has been saying he found it easy to not gamble – it is not.   Your husband’s counsellor, I think, should be in possession of the knowledge of this loss of money as he too seems to think that all is well – complacency is the devil on the shoulder of the CG and many counsellors do not appreciate the deviousness of the addiction.
I hope this makes sense.  I came on to see if you had written but I have got a house to clean and tidy before my guests come.  I have been watching the tennis at Wimbledon for nearly 2 weeks and the dust is thick!
Look after Ell and baby Ell and also Mr Ell.   In my opinion, his addiction is stronger than he realised and you are ahead of him in understanding.
Velvet 
 

[velvet]

Hi Harry
Without hope, Friends and Family feel powerless.  Thank you Harry for giving the Friends and Family forum the knowledge that with serenity, courage and wisdom we can ‘all’ have hope.
Velvet
 

[velvet]

Dear San
I hope you are almost asleep – most of what I was going to say to you I have just said.  It is great to talk in real time.  
As I said I was already writing to you when the group started.  I have looked at what I had written and deleted  most of it.   I will leave part of it though as a reminder of what I said.
Your son is being a naught boy involving his sister so much.  I think it would be a good idea if she told him she cannot be the intermediary and he must talk to you direct – and then you get your partner to vet all the calls.  Is it possible to get her to understand a little of what enablement is without distressing her?   Unfortunately as she is in the UK we are not funded to support her but she can read the forums.  If she could understand that passing the messages on feeds his addiction maybe it would help.    I know it is difficult – siblings tend to have their own point of view!
It is really sad but he is using her and there is no other word for it.    If she feels really pushed by her brother perhaps she could try Gamanon – the physical support from a good group is brilliant.
I can understand that it is ***** like this when you wish that those around you spoke the same language so that you could just unwind.   We go to France every year and I manage the language fine until something goes wrong and then it seems everything speeds up and is unintelligible.  
Keep posting and keep doing what you are doing now – although I would strongly recommend not listening to the bile you are receiving because it doesn’t help you or your son.   As I said I think you could be in for the long haul and you need your strength to cope – if you throw everything into the ‘now’ you will have nothing left for the future when he does want to change.   Listening to horrible things weakens us even if we think we can cope with it – it is a better world where we don’t hear it.   Your son is not saying what is in his heart – it is his addiction talking and there are no holds barred when it wants enablement.   One threat is no different to all the others.   You know you don’t think the things he says you think and you are not the person he implies you are – his words are therefore not worth listening to.  
I hope there are a load of zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz’s coming from you bed – another day completed.
V
 
 
   
 

[velvet]

Dear Ell
As I understand it you still have the ear of your husband’s counsellor.   Maybe it would be good to tell him the situation and let him establish if there is a problem.
V

[velvet]

Dear Ell
As always I cannot tell you what to do but within the first two years of my CG controlling his addiction I had a problem and I was afraid.   I believed that things were not right.  
Eventually I thought I would tell my CG my fear.   I ******* my fear up as best I could because I was afraid of upsetting his recovery but I had to ask for ‘me’ and I tried to explain that to him.  He said he was fine with me asking and that I was completely wrong in my fear.   I knew afterwards that I had hurt his confidence and my fear was proved groundless.  
Dear Ell – if you ‘know’ 100% that he has taken the money then I think it is best to tell him.   If you have any doubt at all, I think it is best to stay quiet.   You counted the money in front of him – he would know he could not take 50 euro without you knowing. 
Your husband has tasted life in control of his addiction and he has loved it.   If he has threatened that happiness he will be shaken and frightened and I believe you will know.  
Be watchful and keep posting.   Don’t test his addiction.   I remember being told in Gamanon that it is unfair to leave money around when a CG is in early recovery – not because they will take it but because it is a temptation.  
I am concerned for you and I and I am here for you.   I made a mistake thinking the worst Ell but I know it is a very difficult time trying to do the right thing.  
Speak soon
?p?? p??ta sa? st???? a??p? µ??
V
 

[velvet]

Dear San
‘As far as you know he has no place to stay, no money and no food’ – you imagine the worst because you think logically and imagine how you would feel if you were in the shoes of your loved one – but it is not possible when the person you love’s mind is distorted with addiction.  
I wish your son a goodnight too and pray that he will be safe and set your mind at rest soon.   Sadly, I am sure that tonight he will be thinking only of himself and your peace of mind will be far from his thoughts.  
You have done amazingly well today – I know it is easier for me to make suggestions than it is for you to follow the suggestions through.  
I hope you sleep well tonight.   Think about the son who has just been to see you when you close your eyes and know that he ***** his mum to be strong – all your children look to you for strength and you are showing it.
One day at a time is all anybody can cope with
Speak soon
V  
 

[velvet]

Hi Jenny
Shortest post from me ever – well done on starting his thread, I appreciate how difficult it must have been to write
V
 

[velvet]

Hi Adele
I know you read other threads and I assume therefore you have seen my attempt to explain **** and the addiction to gamble.
I think you sum it up well when you say **** is easy and relationships are hard.   Relationships between CG and non-CG are often verging on the impossible. 
One of the dangers we have, I think, as we become more knowledgeable about the addiction to gamble is, that we can ‘see it’ it other things too and I am definitely not saying that you do.    
**** can be a part of the addiction and not an addiction or obsession in itself.   The gambling stops and the surrounding behaviour stops – well lots of it anyway.   It would be naïve to suggest that when the gambling stops a perfect person emerges and personally I could not put up with a perfect person.  I have heard from 4 separate CGs that **** helped them feel like men when the addiction had done its best to emasculate them.   All 4 were ashamed and glad to leave it behind when they changed their lives.  
I find the inability to love others because of personal hatred and a total feeling of failure and worthlessness, the saddest part of the addiction to gamble – I can understand that a CG will feel worthless when ‘love’ raises its head in the bed (sorry bad analogy).   You have hit the nail on the head – **** is easier than proving themselves physically with someone who loves them – but it can prove to them that they are still able to function, although in actuality it only increases their shame and lack of self-esteem. 
I hope some of this helps
Post soon – your quietness is overwhelming
V         
 

[velvet]

Hi BB
I think following your latest post and Jenny’s reply there is little I will add to what I was writing before.  
Your safe zone sounds the place that is right for you to be.  
Why should you not hate the person that is hurting you so much?   Don’t expect too much of yourself – you are human and you are in pain.   The hating will stop in time.  
The post I was looking for seems superfluous in view of the way you feel.   I can’t find it anyway and maybe it wouldn’t have helped but I will give you the gist of it. just in case.   It was written by a CG who is living now in control of his addiction and able to love his life and his wife.   He struggled with guilt that on his wedding day he had allowed his bride to walk down the aisle to him on what was, for her, the best day of her life but for him – it was one of the worst.   His only thought was gambling.     
He knows, now that he is in control of his addiction, that he can never put that day right and of course if he ever told her it would break her heart and she would probably feel she hated him.  
What I am trying to say is that a person so full of addiction cannot show love because they cannot feel it – he will hate himself, far more than you ever could and because he hates himself, his addictive behaviour is his comfort zone.
Your husband has no self-esteem and no confidence – he is like a puppet pulled by the strings of a loveless addiction.   He shows anger, defensiveness and lack of care – but the person he cares for least is himself.   These are the traits of the addiction and when they are in full flood I think that withdrawing yourself, to protect yourself is the right thing for you to do.
On this forum those who love a CG are the people who need support – in my opinion, understanding to the best of our ability those who have hurt us helps us in our futures.  It means we can see that it was not because of who we are that our loved one hurt us – it is because of an addiction that distorted their minds causing them to behave in the most appalling fashion BUT in a way that they would not behave if they were in control of their addiction.
He will be ashamed of the **** but instead of saying sorry he will fight because he has an addiction that makes him unable to see reason and logic.   The **** does not lessen you as a person one iota.  
Stay in your safe place until you are ready.   Keep listening and learning and you will make the right informed decision.
Velvet
 
 
 

[Author]

Posts