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Dear Madge

I am not sure how your time ties in with UK time but have a look at the top of the F&F family forum page for details of how to get into groups – the topic is called ‘Groups’.

You didn’t ‘allow’ what has happened to happen deliberately – how could you know that which the addiction never wanted you to know. If it happened, just because we trusted, this would be a sorrier world than it is now. Of course we should be able to trust. I could not c ount the times the addiction fooled me but I know I am not stupid and you will come to really believe that given time, understanding and knowledge.

Please forget the idea that because you were (and are still strong, even if you don’t feel it), this should not have happened to you. I think the stronger and more confident you were before the addiction hit your life, the greater the problem you have in accepting that there was nothing you could do that would have made any difference. The good bit has to be, surely that, knowing you were confident and strong before, your strength and confidence will still be there if you dig for it.

I am concerned that you do things that you hate. Why you are doing them? It sounds as though you are punishing yourself by working out far too much and yet there is no need for you to be punished – you have done nothing wrong. Can you tell me why you feel you deserve such treatment?

You are indeed in my prayers and when we say the Serenity Prayer every week on Tuesdays at 21.55-22.00 hours UK time I hope you know you are included in the circle.

I do hope we speak soon. Vera’s story is not yours. ‘What ifs’ and ‘if only’ can never be part of the recovery for F&F. Today is what matters and I hope today you can tell me something that you have done for yourself that you wanted to do.

Speak soon

V

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Hi B

I hope when we meet in a group, as I know we will soon, that you will be able to tell me the painting is going well – is it oils, water-colour, pastels, or what? My husband goes to art classes and has not advanced much, to date, but he enjoys it and I look forward to the day I can hang something on the wall that he has done – instead of trying to guess what it is!

I go dancing every week and I really think it stimulates. I do country dancing (well I live in the country what do you expect?) and to say I am good would be very far from the truth. The caller always runs through the dance before we start but as soon as the music strikes up my mind goes blank – the only good thing is I can see the same bewilderment on some other faces too. I come home exhausted and bruised but refreshed and regenerated.

This might be cyber space but you have put your intentions in writing and they have been noted, so excuses will have to be brilliant if the intentions have not borne fruit.

I hope the Ritalin makes a difference, now that he has entered a gamble-free life; he will have more space and time to deal with his other problems.

Please don’t be hurt by his thoughtless comment because that is all it was – the comment of someone who was not thinking. It was a selfish remark and you know it wasn’t true so no need to defend yourself or let it fester – unasked for, unconstructive criticism only tells you more about the person who is criticising you.

Teething is tough, pregnancy is tough, recovery is tough and you are living with all three. Give yourself a gold star. You are doing well

V

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Hi San

I loved the guts and verve in your ‘two fingers’ post but I also sense the belief that you think that what you want will always be just beyond you.

You are right that you are doing everything you can to support your son and not his addiction but I know you want more.

I don’t think we can, or should, waste our energy comparing separating from partners/husbands to separating from son/daughter/father but I do know there is a difference. I also believe we do not own our children and from everything you have ever written I know you have done everything you could for all your children. My son told me that there was nothing I could have done that would have changed the way it was/is for him – nothing I had said, thought, acted on would have made a scrap of difference. After much soul-searching I believe this to be true because he is the only one who held the answers that no one else could give with such conviction..

Confused by his active addiction your son cannot give you the closure you want but you can have small closures along the way such as knowing that you have given him the seeds to plant and told him where they will grow when he is ready. You have acted as the most loving mother and now it is down to him.

There can never be complete closure for us,or our sons; they will always be compulsive gamblers so it is important to look for the light bulb moments, that make a difference to us, on your way. It is important to look at your other children, your partner and your friends. It is important to look after your health for your own sake and all who love you.

I cannot give you what you want to hear most but I can repeat again that I would not be here if I did not ‘know’ that the addiction to gamble can be controlled.

I know you son is younger than mine was when he changed his life but I am sure your awareness and your determination to find out all you can about what is hurting him and why, will keep you in good stead until he is ready. I did enable and I am sure my ignorance contributed to the length of time it took for him to change. Keep those two fingers held high to the addiction; you are standing shoulder to shoulder with your son when you do it, not against him.

I am sure we will talk again soon

You are allowing him the space to find his way, that is not leaving him.

V

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Dear Madge

The times I have heard members call themselves stupid and I have searched their posts for proof and found none. The addiction makes us feel inadequate but that is because it crept up on gradually and took away our confidence without us realising it but it didn’t make any of us stupid.

Tomorrow at 2100 hours UK time, Adele and I will be sitting in the comfort of the cyber group room and we will hope to see you come through the door. Talking does help. You don’t need to start from the beginning with us. We can talk about the feelings you might have, or even that you might have lost, without recourse to dig into the whys and wherefores. We can start with how you feel today because today matters.

For a short time lay your burden down and don’t just endure time passing. I cannot ‘know’ if you have fallen out of love with your husband just as I didn’t know whether I had fallen out of love with my CG a few years ago but if we share with each other, knowing that we understand each other, I like to think you might feel stronger. We are anonymous and can therefore examine our hearts without feeling judged.

There is always someone here listening to you Madge. ‘You’ are important.

I am glad you wrote you post – you have been in my thoughts

V

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Hi Shelley

I sincerely hope it was not our hotline that gave dissatisfaction but please email in if this was the case, we will always take constructive criticism very seriously.

When a CG makes a positive step towards facing their addiction, as opposed to making promises to do so, it is always a massive step in the right direction. Promises are meaningless and are often churned out to gain time or side-step the issue. Making a positive move implies that the CG is accepting, or is capable of accepting, that their addiction is governing their behaviour and they want to take retake control of their own life.

It is by far from unknown that family members can keep CGs, who may want to change, locked in to their addiction by actively joining them in the gamble. You are very lenient in your criticism of his mother but by not begrudging him his visits you may possibly be giving him the support he needs. He has to open his own eyes; you cannot do it for him. and criticising a mother-in-law is difficult.

I don’t know if I have said this to you before but I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t know that the addiction to gamble can be controlled. We have many CGs on the site who control their addiction and who will offer your husband support as only another CG, who understands, can.

My CG, like Nomore’s hb would not enter a sweep stake or buy a raffle ticket. I remember we had a big discussion on the site once about ebay. My husband, who is not a CG sold a car on ebay and the excitement he displayed, as the auction came to an end, was enough to convince me that if he had been a CG his mind would have been totally out of control. Each CG in recovery has to make their own decisions but they do need the support and experience of others to help them.

You are doing well posting but you are not saying much about how you are doing and you are important. Living with the addiction to gamble takes away self-esteem and confidence. How do you feel ‘your’ recovery is going?

Keep posting

Velvet

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Dear Ell

In the box under the comment box never forget to click on the box saying ‘Notify me when new comments are posted’. The tick will disappear and the only replies will be in the forum.

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Dear Ell

For a trial period groups have to be entered within the first 15 minutes of the start time. I know this is difficult for you as you call from work and you have to contact when you can.

Berber often pops in on a Tuesday and I know you would like to talk to her in real time. If it is possible for you, please click on Live Advice Help Line between 20.00 and 21.15 UK time tomorrow and hopefully you might find her – you will certainly find me.

I hope this answers you but if it doesn’t please write again – there is work being done all the time to improve the site.

You don’t sound hard dear Ell and I understand you not wanting a relationship somewhere down the middle. All relationships go up and down and sometimes there has to be a middle bit – as long as the feeling still exist there has to be hope.

I hope to talk to you in real time soon

V

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Dear Adele

Like you I have been wondering where everybody is. I know it is more difficult to write after some time without having someone to respond to or something to say.

I don’t find your thinking irrational or even laced with self-pity; I think that many of us will have wanted to be sick enough for a spark of attention that could lead to hope that our loved one cared more for us than their addiction. The CG’s addiction will normally override the non-CG’s feelings when they are coping with illness, birth, death, or any other hiccoughs in life when the non-CG cries out for support. The gamble is usually the CG’s way to cope with such cries. Your husband reacted well.

I believe, therefore, that your CG did show true concern for you and I hope you are over your pneumonia.

I am not sure that things like this happen for a reason but I do see opportunity in your illness and his accident. It has given you both precious time to talk and time for his mind to think of other things apart from his addiction. Nobody knows when true recoveries start but start they do.

I shall look forward to hearing about your first counselling meeting and I hope the counsellor is just right for both of you.

Your comment about the rumbling underneath the surface has struck me many times over the years. I remember being told in Gamanon that alcoholics fall over, drug addict’s eyes reflect their addiction but you can pass a CG in the street and never know – likewise you can never know if people you associate with are carrying heavy burdens too. I suspect there are many heads shaken every minute of every day.

It was so good to see your post. It is so good to hear positive rumblings in your post.

As Ever

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Dear San

I hope you have the most wonderful weekend doing San-things that gave you pleasure.

Knowing you can cope when you are strong is an important message for you to understand. I think it must be true of us all that we cope better when we are feeling strong.

It is the weaker times that you need to protect against and you now understand better when those are. Your health obviously has a large part to play and I wonder if maybe your partner could be the lead person at these times, he will know when they are. ‘Your mother is not well enough to cope at the moment’ could be the type of reply your son requires.

I think sometimes we can be weak when we feel good too – maybe more likely to give way because our lives are on an even keel and we want to share the feeling. This is a dangerous area and I think the time to give yourself a stern reminder of what happened before. Because you feel good does not mean that giving into his demands will make him feel better – he will give an instant cry of thanks and then use your kindness to hurt himself further.

His cycle will continue until he either cannot sustain his addiction or he opens his eyes and seeks support. Your cycle on the other hand is not madly freewheeling as it did and that is great. Once it slows down enough you can get off even though you will not forget he is your son.

Hope to speak soon

V

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Hi Madge

I am glad you got the care and attention you deserved – it almost makes dropping the decoration worthwhile although I am not sure about the pain from the ruptured ligaments.

How are things now you are hopefully totally off crutches and boot-free? Is your husband still co-operating more with the home?

I am hoping that the damn that the CBT has helped to breach is still allowing your husband to let his feelings and worries out. It is astounding how much a person can keep inside them festering away without realising it is happening. I believe that CBT is an amazing tool.

It is great to see you say you are ‘happy’ as I suspect it is a feeling that you felt was denied to you.

I look forward to further updates but hopefully no more accidents.

V

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Dear Shelly

Any gamble to a compulsive gambler feeds their addiction – it doesn’t matter if it is one scratch card or a million pound bet on the poker table the effect on the mind is the same – the addiction is being kept alive. Compulsive gambling has nothing to do with money it is all about the gamble and the excitement in engenders.

I have yet to meet a CG who controls their addiction without support and I suspect your husband is putting off facing his demons and hoping you don’t notice. Active CGs often lull the non-CG into a false sense of security so that they can carry on with their addiction unabated.

Unfortunately promises from active CGs are rarely reliable but are often the means to gain time.

Is his mother aware of your concerns? Does he have to go on this vacation with her? As he is not making any positive moves towards seeking recovery this vacation does not seem to be a good idea at all. If he testing himself to see whether he is a CG by staying with a person with gambling problem then he is not accepting he is a CG.

Perhaps you could print of the Gamblers Anonymous Twenty Questions for him. You will find them in http://www.gamblersanonymous.org It is good for a CG to realise that they are not alone and they can benefit from reading these questions and recognising the damage they are doing to themselves and their loved ones. Perhaps you could tick the yes answers too so that he can see how much he is affecting you.

Keep posting Shelly. Knowledge of the addiction will help you cope

Velvet

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Dear San

Why we give in when faced with determination by another to make us do something that we feel/know is unacceptable is an interesting question?

I have a Labrador who suffers with poor hips and shoulders and at the moment is limping on a front leg. I know that if I throw a ball she will hurt more but she looks at me with eyes that would melt the coldest heart and pleads ‘just one throw – please’. I don’t throw her ball because it would cause her pain but I compromise and throw a soft toy in the hope she doesn’t leap and chase it when it bounces off her nose. Of course it develops to one more throw and then another until her limp is more pronounced. I have become her enabler and I am not doing the right thing for her.

I think the answer to your question is that we ‘hope’ that by giving in a bit we will make the other person’s life better but as can be seen with your small boy and my Labrador it doesn’t always follow.

Many people say they give in for a ‘quiet life’ but surely we all hope for a quiet life. Not so I think. People, dogs have agendas that are not deliberately cultivated, hence the insecure seek to dominate the secure, the young flex their muscles testing their strengths against the experienced and the CG seeks to dominate the non-CG for enablement. The secure, the experienced and the non-CG, I believe, make allowances hoping that by doing so those they love/care about/ meet in life will ‘learn’. I believe that there has to be a balance and it is reached by an individual being happily in control of their own life and able therefore to make the right judgement on a situation for the right reason without giving in to the unacceptable. Your young charge’s demands were not the best but they were also not unacceptable and he will not suffer. You will be ready for him next time having given thought to his behaviour and your reaction.

I was sorry you didn’t make the group last night but I am pleased to see you thinking positively in the cold light of day. Examining your reaction when the stakes are not as high, as they are with your son will, I believe, give you strength. You were not being officious – you knew your body wasn’t up to a fighting game with a 4 year old (I really relate to that) and you knew it was better for him to meet his mother off the train, than to watch television. You have experience and knowledge that he lacks but you weighed up the confrontation against that which you thought would please him. You also know from you own experience that always being told ‘no’ is not a lot of fun.

I love the questioning San

I hope today will bring you the peace and strength you need. Thank you for rattling my little grey cells.

V

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Dear San

Talk to me. I hope to see you in the group tomorrow night but in the meantime please tell me how you are being manipulated and made to feel weak.

I know what you mean about the days of ignorance being better but they were not really because they were a slow build up to feeling as you do now.

Thinking about you

V

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I sent this hours ago so I am hoping it sticks this time

Dear Adele

And I thought you were not posting because you had nothing you felt you needed to say!

This is cyber space Adele and as such we cannot ‘know’ each other in the same way as if we were physically close. I ‘think’ I understand totally your feelings, as to why you were astounded at your reaction to your husband’s near death experience and it can only be with those thoughts I form my reply.

It would be naïve to suggest that all non-CGs are going to react in the same way, even when they have been given the same support and knowledge. I cannot imagine anybody being instantly prepared to deal with this addiction in a totally empathetic, sympathetic way when it is forced into their lives, unasked for, by another. In my opinion there has to be a toll and depending on the individuals the toll will be different.

Only an individual can determine how deep their abyss is. In my opinion there can never be a judgement on the different ways non-CG deal with the addiction. You have been hit by something you did not expect or sign up for and whatever your outcome and feelings you will be understood on here.

There is nothing wrong, with you, or your feelings. I suggest you didn’t feel as you would have expected to because the addiction has temporarily suffocated your ability to feel empathetic towards the person who has hurt you but based on experience I truly believe this can change.

I suggest that you give yourself time. I am not a believer that that what is said when a person is Brahms and Liszt ( cockney rhyming slang for your condition) is always the absolute truth but maybe it is an indication, maybe not.

In the cold light of day I know you will read what you have written and ponder what it means and I will be interested to read your ponderings.

I know you have accepted that your husband did not ask for or want this addiction but that does not completely diminish the effect it has had on you. Give yourself time. Your recovery is on-going and is not complete. Anger, frustration and struggling with foreign emotions is not something you wake up and find resolved overnight. Keep posting. I know you will come to your own informed decision.

Your friends sound terrific – you are very lucky to have them although I suspect you deserve them. Now was obviously the right time to tell them so don’t concern yourself with why you didn’t before.

Good to hear you posting about you again

V

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Dear Adele

And I thought you were not posting because you had nothing you felt you needed to say!

This is cyber space Adele and as such we cannot ‘know’ each other in the same way as if we were physically close. I ‘think’ I understand totally your feelings, as to why you were astounded at your reaction to your husband’s near death experience and it can only be with those thoughts I form my reply.

It would be naïve to suggest that all non-CGs are going to react in the same way, even when they have been given the same support and knowledge. I cannot imagine anybody being instantly prepared to deal with this addiction in a totally empathetic, sympathetic way when it is forced into their lives, unasked for, by another. In my opinion there has to be a toll and depending on the individuals the toll will be different.

Only an individual can determine how deep their abyss is. In my opinion there can never be a judgement on the different ways non-CG deal with the addiction. You have been hit by something you did not expect or sign up for and whatever your outcome and feelings you will be understood on here.

There is nothing wrong, with you, or your feelings. I suggest you didn’t feel as you would have expected to because the addiction has temporarily suffocated your ability to feel empathetic towards the person who has hurt you but based on experience I truly believe this can change.

I suggest that you give yourself time. I am not a believer that that what is said when a person is Brahms and Liszt ( cockney rhyming slang for your condition) is always the absolute truth but maybe it is an indication, maybe not.

In the cold light of day I know you will read what you have written and ponder what it means and I will be interested to read your ponderings.

I know you have accepted that your husband did not ask for or want this addiction but that does not completely diminish the effect it has had on you. Give yourself time. Your recovery is on-going and is not complete. Anger, frustration and struggling with foreign emotions is not something you wake up and find resolved overnight. Keep posting. I know you will come to your own informed decision.

Your friends sound terrific – you are very lucky to have them although I suspect you deserve them. Now was obviously the right time to tell them so don’t concern yourself with why you didn’t before.

Good to hear you posting about you again

V

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