[velvet]

Hi Jenny
I appreciate CGs who are taking control of their lives and those who have taken control, writing on this forum because it is always good to get other perspectives.
However, I think in the situation you are in at the moment it is better to get in touch with our helpline for the other perspective. We can feel for Marco but he is not where your ex is now. I know what it has taken for you to come here and write as you do and that is what Marco does not know.
Please do not start feeling guilt as a result of this post – you are doing well, you are going the right way to protect you, your children and yes – your ex.
If you want to know about help for your ex then it is on this site, the Helpline will give you any information you require. You already know that my CG went through the Gordon Moody Rehab and changed his life; this forum never holds back on telling members that it can be done.
Hanging in though, just in case, is often not an option – just as it was not for me. My CG has told me that as long as I enabled he could not see the point in changing. When we finally became completely estranged he slept on the floor of friends who found me cold and heartless because I wouldn’t consider selling everything to help him – finally of course they turned their backs too. It was not until all hope had gone that he knew he could not go on. I would, through ignorance, have denied him the ability to get to that point – I know now that I gave him the chance to change.
If Marco’s post has affected you in a derogatory way, please, please get in touch with the helpline, you can ask them for my email address if you wish and I will be happy to give it.
Forgiveness is all very well but at the moment it is strength that you need.
I don’t know what stage of control Marco has reached but your husband is definitely not at the same stage and shows no signs of getting there. The addiction to gamble can be controlled but sometimes that control is not reached in time to save relationships. The collapse of your relationship is your ex’s responsibility and one he will have to accept if he is to ever change his life.
Keep talking – I am walking with you and I care
Velvet

[velvet]

Dear Caroline
I thought that English was your first language; you are so good, so there is no need for any apology.
I am so very sorry I kept getting disconnected this evening – it has never been like that for me before – very frustrating. I will hopefully make it up next Tuesday with double cyber wine and extra cyber cake.
I did note before I was disconnected that the others were saying they thought you ought to tell your in-laws that your partner is still gambling – having had time to read your post a few times I am strongly inclined to think they are right. I fully appreciate that there could be tears and recriminations but the reason I feel they should be told is that your father-in-law is not helping by giving his son cash. Maybe you could gently explain to him that giving cash to a CG it is the same as giving a drink to an alcoholic.
Whatever you do decide to do I think it is so important that you don’t lie for your partner if you are asked again about the £300.
As his parents ‘want to know’ but ‘don’t know what to do’, maybe you could explain to them that giving their son cash is feeding his addiction and that if they didn’t do it there would be less need for the shouting and tears when he lets them down. Perhaps you could ask them not to make a big issue of it this time but to help you and their son in a different way.
It is not fair that you are in the middle, so I suggest that maybe you could tell them that this is the last time you want to be caught in this way.
Keep posting – not only is your English amazing, you are doing so well understanding your partner, his family and your children – they are all lucky to have you in their lives but please take care of yourself because ‘you’ really matter.
V

[velvet]

Dear Jenny
You asked in an earlier post, why you married him, why did you talk to him and now why did you feed him. I try never to do ‘what ifs?’ or ‘if onlys’ because what happened has happened and therefore cannot be undone. I think ‘why’ is different because if we don’t ask ‘why’ we could make the same mistake again.
Why did you talk to him? Well he asked to talk to you which seemed a perfectly reasonable thing to do. I would have said yes too – after all it would be good to get some answers – and you did get the bonus of the key back! Also he had had time to think so maybe…….. . However you found that nothing had changed, you got confirmation that his addiction was still active and so you knew you were right to distance yourself from him.
Why did you marry him? I would imagine that thousands and thousands of people ask themselves that question which in quieter moments they can probably answer perfectly well. CGs are often gregarious jolly types on the outside – just think, if his opening line had been ‘Hi, I am a master of threats and manipulation, guaranteed to bring you pain’- I don’t think you would have gone out with him never mind married him..
Why did you feed him? To me this is the simplest – because you are human, caring and kind, – although I hope it was beans, bread and milk, not caviar and champagne!
He might have been nice to you because he had lost again, he might have been nice because he was hungry – on the other had he might have been nice because he actually did hear you through the fog of his addiction – it is one of the conundrums that keeps F&F going in the cycle – trying to work out what is good and what isn’t. Overall though Jenny he doesn’t appear to be making a real effort to change yet so I would urge you to not think he was nice because he had seen the light.
Your strength hasn’t gone Jenny – getting over the experiences you have had take time, emotions rocket up and plummet down.
I wonder if keeping a journal would help you – it did me. I used to write to myself and bang out on the keyboard all the painful incidents I could remember that had taken me to the sorry state I was in. I found that by putting the thoughts on paper stopped them going round and round in my brain. Whenever I felt overwhelmed I would go and bash away until the pain had gone – usually once a day. Having expunged the anger I would not read what I had written (indeed the foul language and misspellings would have shocked me) but I would print it off and keep it in a hidden file that was never meant to see the light of day. The file got thick as my mind grew lighter – I couldn’t destroy it as I was afraid the thoughts would return to my head.
As I recovered my strength and it ceased to fail me I began to destroy the pages without reading them. I took a long time to destroy them all but healing does take time and it had taken years for me to be so broken..
You said you ‘know’ you can trust yourself and that is terrific because it means your children can trust you too – you are already a wonderful role model for them.
Shutting his addiction out is hard – it is easy to say but so difficult to do. I know you will be alright because I can read the strength building in your posts. I remember crying incessantly and wondering if I would ever laugh again but only a weepy film will get me crying now and I laugh every day. Dry your eyes today Jenny – you are doing well even if it feels like rubbish.
Hoping maybe to ‘see’ you again this evening
V

[velvet]

Hi Ailujym
I’m sorry to hear you are still struggling. Being back in the same position is common with an addiction that goes round and round in a never-ending cycle.
I think what struck me most was when you said that even though your CG was going to therapy he was only ‘trying to be reasonable’ about his addiction which is not remotely the same as taking control of it. A CG cannot gamble responsibly, playing with recovery sounds to me as though he was doing lip service to keep you happy and if that was the case he was not trying at all. For a CG to change their life a commitment has to be made followed by action – there are no half measures; abstinence by itself is not recovery.
I wonder if the therapist he saw understood the addiction to gamble. I remember seeing a counsellor many years ago and telling her everything that was going on in my life and still she didn’t see that it was a CG addiction hurting me. Unfortunately I hear too often that a CG can pull the wool over the eyes of counsellors and therapists who have not comprehended what the addiction to gambling is all about and in their ignorance they do more harm than good because the CG can then say – well I did my best, I sought help. I came away convinced that the problem in my life was all my own doing and as a result I didn’t seek or get the help I needed for far too long.
I am hoping to hear that you secured a flat for yourself because I feel that being rootless is making you vulnerable and the addiction to gamble loves those who are vulnerable.
I am not judging, I went back on my resolve so many times I could never judge another, however, I do feel that you do know the right things to do but you are just finding it hard to do it.
I am not surprised that you were furious about having your recovery thrown back at you as a reason for your relationship struggling. It was a stroke of manipulative brilliance to try to get you to take the blame and I am glad you didn’t fall for it. I wondered if the so-called friends he talked to play poker with him, if they are they won’t want him to stop – they probably enjoy taking his money.
I cannot tell you what to do Ailujym but there is no way I could hope that you will return to this relationship. If you were still living with him I would try and make suggestions to improve the way things were but having now got away I think the distance between you is the best thing for you. In my view living with a CG to combat loneliness could never be a good idea – it is an addiction that brings loneliness, there can never be a certainty that your partner will come home and friends drop away because they don’t understand.
In my opinion you will definitely return to the cycle if you go back because your partner is not making the necessary effort – maybe it would be better to ask that he makes the effort to change his life first.
I look forward to you posting again to hear what you have decided to do. Well done coming back and posting – it was the right thing to do.
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi MM

I will be thinking about you – we will raise a cyber glass to you on Tuesday – you will be missed.

Keep Safe

V

[velvet]

Hi Caroline
I will try and answer your question but I hope you will pop back into the group next Tuesday because another member will probably be there and can tell you the reaction she has had from her CG when she began looking after herself.
The person we love, our CG as we call them, gets used to us behaving in a certain way – you will have cried, pleaded, threatened, demanded, raged and your partner’s addiction will have thrived while you wept. What you will probably not have done is laughed, seen friends, relaxed, put yourself first, said ‘no’ and felt strong enough to carry it through. You have probably become the enabling part of the cycle of the addiction and if nothing you have done so far has stopped that cycle, it seems to make sense to try something different.
As you are the closest person to your CG you will almost certainly be the person he can blame most for his poor behaviour, the person responsible for all his misery and things that are going wrong all around him, the reason the children didn’t behave well or why he mislaid his wallet. He will not want to lose the ability to blame you because he will not want to accept that he is responsibility for the problems surrounding him.
It is important not to put on an act of being in control to get him to react – his addiction will get round that but if you have been doing things that give you pleasure, the things you have denied yourself because of his addiction, you will begin to glow again and it is that which changes your behaviour and makes you stronger and less fearful. Enjoy doing things with the children but don’t expect him to join in because when you do that it opens the door for poor behaviour when he doesn’t want to play which in turn gives him an excuse to gamble because your expectations (in his mind) were unreasonable. I believe it is best not to soothe a CG when he loses but on the other hand it is a waste of breath yelling too – your peace of mind is all important and conserving your energy for yourself is better than blowing it over an addiction that makes no sense.
The other thing that happens when the addiction is in control of your life is that you show the hurt in your expressions, your voice, your appearance – doing things for ourselves means you make an effort to look better and eat better in order to feel better – you give yourself a make-over, a personality/health boost.
I told you on Tuesday that I was a blob; well blobs don’t have personality because they don’t have joy in their hearts. It is really difficult at first to change and I cannot tell you what to do. For the record, I hasten to add, I don’t think you are a blob – I just think you probably don’t feel like ‘you’ anymore. Most F&F find their social lives diminishing as the addiction grows; friends stop enjoying them as much because social events are spoilt with the worry of the addiction; there are too many tears causing too many wrinkles, there isn’t a lot of fun anymore and children looking on feeling left out and insecure.
This is why, I believe it is so important to not only confuse the addiction but strengthen yourself. The cycle has to be broken if decent lives are to be lived. The beauty about learning to love yourself is that you will find you will laugh and dance and sing again – the tears will flow less often and ultimately dry up completely.
I don’t believe in looking after oneself as a means to make a CG change; I don’t believe in looking after oneself as a means of punishing CG. I don’t believe in saying ‘no you can’t join in’ – I just don’t think that forcing things on a CG works.
I believe that the non-CGs can make a difference to their own life and hopefully, maybe, it will show the CG that there is another way, a better way and the person they love is finding it. I believe that when you are strong there is more hope for the CG you love to change because you are not part of the wreckage of the addiction but a rock on which he can, if he determines to stop gambling, lean on.
I hope some of this helps – there are so many different words and it is not always possible the right ones are used. If there is anything you don’t understand come back at me. I will always do my best to answer.
We are all individuals with a common goal but there will always be different outcomes and some may not be the one we hoped for. However, in my opinion, being in control of your own life must be the best outcome for all who come on this site.
I know I have said it before but:- – I would not be writing you to you if I didn’t know that the addiction to gamble can be controlled and fantastic lives lived as a result. To turn this terrible experience into something good is possible – but there is no denying it does take a lot of work.
Speak soon
V

[velvet]

Hi Caroline

I have started my reply to you but I am being overtaken by the need to nod off so I will finish it tomorrow.

I’m glad you enjoyed the group – they are often surprising, always different, sometimes we have tears but they are usually upbeat and yes sometimes funny.

I will keep your chair free for next Tuesday but for now I must say goodnight.

V

[velvet]

Hi Jenny
I don’t think he will consider coming round when you are out as a risk, simply because he isn’t that logical or reasonable and a ‘risk’ is a ‘gamble’ after all. If it was me I would change the locks. I know it is additional cost but the peace of mind it would give should make it worthwhile. I think you are right not to trust your ex and trying to discuss the matter with him will almost certainly end badly. I am not sure about the legalities for you but for me the peace of mind would be more important.
I am wondering if you can get the answers you want regarding loans from the CAB if you are in the UK – I cannot tell you what to do as I don’t know the answers and would be guessing just as you are doing. I do agree with you about giving the address of your ex to the companies he owes money to – the debts are not your responsibility and getting heavy letters demanding money on your doorstep is very distressing.
I am so sorry you have felt down today – the group was lively and it probably got your brain working overtime – you are in a rotten situation at the moment. The F&F recovery is tough and goes up and down but given time I have no doubt you will come through this bad experience and turn it into something good for you and your children.
I have to dash Jenny but I just wanted to put a few words together for you to let you know that I am thinking about you.
V

[velvet]

Dear MM
At the risk of making you sadder I hear manipulation in every line. I suggest to you MM that the reason he cannot open up is because the money has been gambled.
If I was hearing the same words in my situation over again I would be positive the money had been gambled – actually I will correct that statement – when I heard almost identical words my CG had always gambled. Why do you not believe that he has gambled the money?
Your husband seems hell-bent on getting you to Cuba but offering nothing but prevarication and manipulation – I don’t hear someone trying to build even a tiny bit of trust. You can hear that ‘he’ is getting annoyed but I suggest to you that his addiction is getting doubly furious because you are not jumping to its tune. ‘His’ leaving the conversation so abruptly is typical too – leaving you with the guilt to think over what has been said and to realise that when he gambles again it will be your fault. By taking on the guilt, ‘in advance’ of his next gambling spree, it seems to you that you haven’t fully accepted your husband’s addiction.
I have been feeling MM that maybe you should return to Cuba and see for yourself but in view of this latest communication and your reaction I hope you will delay longer and give yourself time to think and understand more. I know you have been reading and trying to take in all the different aspects of the addiction to gamble but of course coping with a loved one who is actively gambling is not so easy. Sadly it takes far too many kicks in the teeth before we finally get the light bulb moment and then the strength to keep it switched on.
In my opinion MM it would be better if you leave him to do some thinking – hold off from communicating and maybe write some headings of what you will and will not not say to him when you do. Talking to an active CG face to face is hard enough but you are trying to discern from a distance what it going on and I definitely do not hear the conversation the way you have done.
I am sorry you feel so alone in Mexico – I hope keeping in touch with the site is helping you to feel less so.
Speak soon – you will be ok
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Caroline
Your reply sums up the best way to cope with your partner’s addiction.
I’m afraid I wasn’t feeling 100% yesterday and I wanted to say more to you about having conversations with your partner but the words didn’t flow and when they don’t flow it is best not to write. So here I am today with an idea to hopefully help you cope with future conversations. It isn’t a method recommended by professionals but it has worked for many. Sorry if I am repeating some of what I said yesterday.
Imagine when you have conversations with your partner that his addiction is a slavering beast in the corner of the room. As long as you are not talking about gambling and keep your cool it will stay quiet in the corner.
Your partner is controlled by the addiction beast but you are not and nor will you be unless you allow it. When you threaten it by raising anything to do with gambling it leaps between you and takes control of the conversation. It is the master of threats and manipulation and will have you in the middle of an argument without you knowing how you got there. Arguments give it reason to breathe so that it can blame you for all the problems, thus exonerating itself from blame.
Once the addiction beast is in full throttle you will only hear the addiction speaking and because it thrives on lies and deceit it will seek to demoralise you. When you speak, your partner hears your words as though through water, your lips move but the addiction-distorted words don’t make sense.
My CG explained it to me in this way: While I was explaining to him that if he told the truth and lived honestly he would be happy, his addiction-distorted mind was convincing him that I was lying, that only his addiction would save him. When I told him I loved him he believed I was lying because as he said ‘who could possibly love the unlovable, worthless failure’ his addiction had convinced him that he was? Lost and afraid he fought back with more lies, blame and deceit because he didn’t have any other coping mechanism.
I believe F&F waste valuable time ‘wanting’ to believe that the CG they love is telling the truth and that ‘this’ time, maybe, he/she is different. I think it is good, although difficult, to block out the lies because by wanting to believe them, you become receptive. If you can stand back a bit and listen to what your partner is saying, it becomes easier not get caught up in an argument that has no point apart from making you feel less in control. Once you begin to try and put your side the addiction has something to get its teeth into.
This all sounds a little negative but the positive side is that it removes you from the centre of the addiction giving you time and energy to look after you.
By looking after you first you will become stronger, you will reclaim your own life and be able to cope with your children and make the right decisions for your relationship. One of the best ways to win is not to play the game.
Caroline, I will hold your hand for as long as you want me to but the amazing thing is that when you come out of the darkness and into the light of recovery, which you will do, it will be you and your strength alone that gets your there.
I hope to ‘meet’ you tonight. The group is easy, if a little daunting at first – it is a rolling scroll and you write whenever and whatever you want to say. You will be able to see who else is in the group with you and all your questions and thoughts will be read and replied to. It does move fast but join in when you can and don’t worry about anything – I will know you are there.
V

[velvet]

Hi MM
I expect I will ‘see’ you tonight but I wanted to push a few thoughts around.
Your husband does not have the ability to ‘learn’ about his addiction so I would imagine he is hanging on to your every word for understanding. Because he doesn’t have support groups and information he will not be gaining the level of understanding that he would have had in other countries. It could therefore be argued that he is not able to adapt his patterns of behaviour to fool you. However although I don’t want to overestimate or underestimate the manipulative ability of the CG, the addiction to gamble it is one hell of a pernicious enemy. Money equals gamble and therefore the sole aim of a day or relationship is to get that money. With one goal in mind the CG’s every fibre is geared toward gaining the wherewithal to gamble, you on the other hand are thinking of many different things at a time.
I think that mentioning the G word is often a waste of time; it seems to bring out the worst of the addiction and who wants to hear more lies and excuses? From all you have said I still think that your return to Cuba is the right decision for the person that is ‘you’. It might not be right for everybody but you need to know for your sake what the true picture is. Once F&F emerge from the dark and fully recover I think they can safely cease to fear being near the addiction – however, although you are not at that point yet, you want to see your husband again which to me is understandable – I wouldn’t want to give up at this stage either.
You will go to Cuba therefore armed with an arsenal of knowledge of which your husband is unaware. You are stronger than his addiction but in view of all the above you are also extremely vulnerable – love can be a real pain can’t it?
I sense you are in limbo right now, wanting to approach the man you love but afraid of the addiction he owns – what are the options – never to return to him or go and see for yourself? In other words it is time to make your own informed decision. That is what I believe you came on this site to learn to do and that is what I believe you are doing.
It will be the most cynical thing I ever say but I think that to trust your husband at all would be totally unwise. If your husband is asking for trust it is implies he is not accepting his addiction yet as he should know he cannot trust himself. Trust will take a long, long time to rebuild and nothing can hurry it but healthy actions over a long period.
I am interested as to why you are feeling awkward about questioning your husband – if you didn’t question wouldn’t it imply that you are accepting there is no concern – in which case it would be a dishonest assumption.
Hope to speak tonight
V

[velvet]

Hi Tired
To join the group click on ‘Support Groups’ and scroll down to Tuesday 20.00 -21.00 hours UK time. You will see ‘Friends and Family’. At 20.00 hours the word ‘join’ will light up. Click on that and you will part of the group – I will be there to welcome you. If you are still unsure please post again or contact our Helpline which is open today until 17.00 hours UK time.
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Andi
The ‘real time’ group is on Tuesdays between 20.00 – 21.00 hours UK time.
Look forward to ‘meeting’ you. Nothing in the group appears on the forum so it is private.
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Caroline
I don’t think you are the remotest bit silly – In my opinion it would only be silly if you didn’t come back and ask questions when you are not sure what I meant – so well done you.
It is far too easy to stop seeing friends, to stop walking in the park and enjoying the laughter of your children when the addiction to gamble is consuming your thoughts 24 hours a day – it is sadly too easy to forget to be happy. It is important, therefore, to take time every day to do things that give you pleasure, to do things that make you laugh and give you some peace because such things will help you cope.
Suggesting to a CG that they do something can often be met with excuses – there is no money, they are busy, they don’t feel well, they are tired – resulting in sadness and disappointment for those who love them. That sadness and disappointment is welcomed by an addiction because it gives the CG an excuse to gamble, Do things because ‘you’ want to do them to avoid disappointment. Of course if your partner wants to come that is good and in my opinion should be welcomed.
I wish I had longer to write to you this evening but I have to be elsewhere soon. In your conversation tomorrow try and listen carefully to what your partner is saying rather than trying to tell him what you think he should do. This might sound a little negative but it keeps you out of the centre of any possible argument. As you listen maybe you can see ways to support him that have not been evident before. Maybe you could tell him you are seeking help because you want to support him the best way that you can.
It would be good to ‘see’ you in the group tomorrow evening where we can ‘talk’ in real time. 20.00-21.00 hours UK time – you will be very welcome.
I will write to you again soon
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi D
I am so glad you have shared your worry with your brother. Although he thinks that what your father is doing could be harmless, the score you believe your father would reach on the GA 20 questions suggests otherwise. As you will have seen most compulsive gamblers will answer yes to at least 7 of the questions, so there is reason to be concerned.
There are grey areas for many who gamble – gambling may be controlled but appear excessive to those around them. Most of us, I think, have things that we love doing that take over our lives for a time, even obsessively but do us no harm – for me it is table-tennis. The difference between me enjoying what I do and being compulsive is that if it hurt me or those around me I could stop easily and immediately.
When your father asked you for money for a friend of his, did you give it to him and if so when did you get repaid? Was he anxious when he asked you and what reason did he give for not helping his friend himself?
CGs have very big highs and lows, so how edgy and moody do you feel your father is around the times you think he gambles?
Does he lie, sometimes about things that make no sense and times when there is no reason to lie at all?
The fact that you don’t think he is in financial trouble possibly means he is gambling within limits he has fixed for himself in which case he ‘might’ be in control or problematic rather than addicted.
The person who, in my opinion, would benefit from talking about a possible worry is your mother but I really cannot tell you that this is something you must do. I know from my own experience that I would have gained immeasurably from knowing because I could have made sense of what was happening to me and I would have had choices in my life whereas ignorance meant I had none and therefore I enabled. ‘If’ your father is gambling compulsively then I have no doubt your mother’s life is being devalued. It may be that she will not thank you for talking to her because many people chose denial but if she is unwittingly enabling your father it seems to me she could do with understanding from those who love them both.
Living with the addiction to gamble is enough to weaken a person. Does your brother feel your mother is weak emotionally or physically?
Quite a few questions for you D but I hope that by exchanging information you will come to know the way forward that is right for you.
Whatever happens and I cannot stress this enough, you have your own life to lead and it is so very important that this concern does not damage your life. Many people do not achieve their best in education because they worried about extraneous things when they were young and then, for evermore, find themselves wishing ‘if only …..’ Your university education must come first; that is the right thing for both of your parents as well as for you.
Keep posting
V

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