[velvet]

Hi Hope
Your son learned in GMA to provide receipts for things he had bought to prove that he had in fact used the money to buy the goods for which it was intended. He therefore knows that it is acceptable to provide proof to you as to why he cannot afford a haircut. You know I cannot tell you what to do but if it was me I would not have the cash available for a haircut because hair grows without causing any threat to life – it just means there will just be a bit more to cut by the next payday.
Your son is treating your money as though you have a bottomless pit of cash available for him but if you imagine this continuing for years your finances could well become seriously affected. I suggest you begin to think how you would feel if this happened – you wouldn’t be able to hand over money to him and you would have to say ‘no’.
I’m afraid that telling him he is deluded isn’t making him weary – words don’t affect him – you are struggling far more with this than he is.
He says he has the money for his train so carry on with what you want to do tomorrow – I suggest perhaps you are not accessible to him at the time he leaves for work.
I hope to ‘see’ you tomorrow evening where we can speak plainly.
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Hope
I am sure you will have said to him in the past that this is the last time you will buy his ticket and your words have been water off a duck’s back because he ‘believes’ you don’t mean it.
Is he asking for you to buy his ticket and if so, what reason is he giving that he has no money to buy it?
V

[velvet]

<

Hello Hopeful and thanks for starting a thread in the Gambling Therapy forums

Here at Gambling Therapy we pride ourselves on being a caring and diverse online community who can help and support you with the difficulties you’re currently facing. We understand that this might be a tough time for you, particularly if you’re new to recovery, so come here as often as you need to and participate in the forums, access online groups and connect to the live advice helpline if you need one to one support. We’re in this together!

Here on the forum you can share your experiences in a safe, supportive and accepting environment. The beauty of writing it all down is that you can take your time and you will be creating a record of your progress that you can look back on if it ever feels like you’re not moving forward. So, share as much or as little as you like but do try to stick to keeping just one thread in this forum so people know where to find you if they want to be updated on your progress or share something with you.

And on that note….

I’m going to hand you over to our community because I’m sure they will have some words of wisdom for you 🙂

Take care

The Gambling Therapy Team

PS: Let me just remind you to take a look at our
privacy policy and terms and conditions so you know how it all works!

[velvet]

Hi Hope
When I first came on to this site I was under the impression that my CG was writing in My Journal and I made up my mind that I would never read anything he had written as his recovery was the most important thing to me and I believed (and still do) that if he needs to talk to his peers then that is him protecting his recovery.
What I eventually become aware of (mainly because he corrected me one day on something I had written) was that my CG was reading my thread. Fortunately for me he was able to talk to me about his concern because by then we were already communicating quite well – I am concerned that your son might feel he had nobody to talk to if he was unhappy with something he read on your thread. My CG correcting me was an important step forward because he was trusting me not to start raking over old ground or coming out with comments that didn’t help. He knew he could correct me which was new behaviour for him because before rehab he would have gone to ground and festered until he gambled. Listening is more important than talking to a CG, post rehab, because we can say things that trigger the wrong reactions without knowing we are doing it
I am also concerned that it could mean that your support was compromised – maybe you would you start subconsciously writing to him in your posts rather than putting yourself first. You need your support so that you can support him.
If he is gambling and is not prepared to talk to you when you tell him what you are feeling, then maybe it is time to try something different. Perhaps it would be better if you said something like – I am here for you when you are ready to talk – and leave it at that.
Try and enjoy his company without the gambling always in the conversation because probably the time to talk is coming if he hasn’t got his train ticket and needs money.
Keep posting and I will keep thinking
V

[velvet]

Hi Again Hope
As a postscript to my previous post – it wasn’t until my CG was weary of his life that he summoned the determination to really do something about it.
V

[velvet]

Dear Hope
Sorry I haven’t replied sooner but I have been away for the weekend.
I have not read anything you have written that I did not feel post rehab – or that my CG did not express – even down to the gut feeling that there was more going on than was being recognised.
I can believe your son is weary – he has been into rehab and has been given the tools to control his addiction but he hasn’t, so far, managed to utilise them for very long. He is probably very disappointed and tired of trying.
My CG did not go back into the house for more rehab Hope but he always kept in communication with it – he knew he had not mastered his addiction even though he knew what he had to do to control it.
Unfortunately although the CG works hard at changing and determining to live a better life, it is unsettling after rehab to find the world has not changed at all. All around him the media is still screaming at him to buy things he cannot afford, to believe in the unattainable, to have this car or that holiday. Rehab can teach your son how he should live if he is to control his addiction but it can’t teach those he meets from having expectations of him that weigh too heavily on him; it can’t teach the media to consider those who cannot, for one reason or another, afford the luxuries of life. The battle is tough and your son is in the middle, confused and weary.
I believe that recovery is a lonely slog however much those around the CG love them. This is why I believe that communication with other CGs who have controlled their addiction or talking to those who really understand, such as GMA or the Helpline here is so important.
I know that GMA residents are discouraged from being alone in their rooms – they are not ordered out but when they emerge they are treated to conversation and activity. Is your son eating with you? Maybe when he comes in from work or whenever he is about to disappear into his room you could suggest that you would like his company for a little while but have something ready to talk about, encourage him to tell you about his day and hopefully tell him something that you had done or that you had enjoyed. Questioning a CG is often fraught as it is a reminder of when suspicion lurked behind so many conversations –paranoia is not uncommon. Inviting conversation by requesting his opinion or drawing him in to something that has happened or building on something that he has said is great. Ask him to help you understand rather than telling him what you maybe think he should do – and I am really not suggesting that this is what you do.
It is eggshells and I know you must be weary of walking on them but your son is vulnerable and I am hoping that his weariness is with his addiction, in which case maybe he is ready to have another go at controlling it.
Leave no stone unturned Hope – talk to our Helpline, ask about GMA. The addiction to gamble does cause depression – it thrives on failure. I cannot tell you what to do but I am not of the opinion that a GP or pills are the answer.
His brain isn’t wired wrongly, it is just wired differently, he has to work at seeing things the way other people do – but he can be understood and the support is there for him. He can use this experience to live a better life. Maybe he didn’t dig deep enough when he had the chance – maybe he could be encouraged to try again.
I hope you will join me again tomorrow evening but until then keep posting and I will stoke the little grey cells.
Velvet

[velvet]

Dear Daddda
I can hear the pain in your words but much as I want to give you solace I am stuck, as always, by the fact I cannot comment on US law or fraud or PTSD.
I went through a horrendous divorce years ago and I know what it is like not to have the law making the sense it should make – I too was left with nothing and three very small children.
It is only taking one day at a time that got me through and some days were much blacker than others.
Your court case and its outcome do seem to represent a miscarriage of justice and I had a similar experience but it still doesn’t make me qualified to give you the support that you so obviously need. Even saying ‘face forward’ doesn’t offer anything in practical support.
I sincerely hope you can now pick up the pieces and determine the way you want your life to go from now without interference from others.
Take care of yourself
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Lala

I am interested as to why you thought the ’20 questions’ might do more harm than good – they have been drawn up by people who have a unique understanding of the problem your Dad is facing. Did you rate him yourself and if so to how many questions do you think he would answer ‘yes’?

It is possible Lala that you Dad is not compulsive but has a problem in which case all the information he can get with regards to that problem is important – to stop himself becoming compulsive. The’ 20 questions’ can raise awareness of something that hitherto was unknown to him, allowing him to see where his behaviour might lead if he continues as he has been doing.

So often I read how the addiction to gamble makes detectives of people who do not like the feeling it gives them – it was true of me too!
You have a child to care for and raising a child requires the mother to care for herself, so I suggest you stop checking up on your Dad because it is causing your own anxiety issues to be exacerbated and your health really matters. Constantly checking on your Dad and then facing him with your findings will not change his behaviour – if he is addicted to gambling you will be wasting your own strength and it will become a cycle of behaviour that leads nowhere.

Speak soon

Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Hope
A PS to my last post:-
When my CG left the project he wasn’t totally in control of his life – that takes time. This is recognised by the GMA because they can only give the tools and hope that they will be used, however, they are always willing to offer support to ex-residents.
When your son makes what appear to be inappropriate demands, such as for his ticket to work when he has gambled the money, instead of telling him what he should, or should not have done etc which only wears you out, gently suggest that he contacts the GMA House that he was in and ask them what they think he should do about getting his ticket or going on holiday. You might possibly imply strongly that you will stand by the advice that he is given. This might sound like passing the buck but I can assure you their understanding is immense and there is nothing they have not heard of before. There is no harm to be done in telling a CG who wants to control his/her addiction that you are struggling too and that you want them to get further support. It is not an admission of weakness but of recognising that the same problem is being faced by you both. If he then seeks to manipulate the situation in the mistaken belief that you are weak then that is the time to batten down the hatches and ride the storm.
I asked my CG to help me when I didn’t know what I should,or should not, be doing. I know he referred back to the House he had been in and he was never turned away.
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Hope
In my opinion, it would be completely appropriate for your son to find rented accommodation and leave the safety net of his home with you. Be prepared for a tough disengagement, however, I doubt he will willingly give up the place he appears to believe will offer him the sanctuary he wants when the going gets tough. I hope your husband will stand beside you on this.
If your son is actively discussing going on holiday with his girlfriend then you are probably looking at a showdown fairly soon unless she is funding him entirely.
Your son will know that you are reluctant to say ‘no’ to purchasing his train ticket, he knows what store you lay by him doing a job that he is doing well, so he will almost certainly have put concern about the train ticket on the back burner thus giving him the money he should be using for his travel to indulge his addiction. However, he earns the money to buy his ticket and ‘he’ is responsible for buying his ticket, so if he squanders it on his addiction then it is not your fault and it is not your responsibility to pick up the pieces – regardless of whether it endangers his job or not (and yes, I do know how devastating this feels to you).
Of course it is easy for me to talk tough, I appreciate that completely but everything I say to you I had to learn myself and although it was incredibly painful it gave me back my life. I believe that what your son learned in Gordon House is still there within him but he is not bothering to dig deep enough to use it.
I think WMs last paragraph hits the nail on the head ‘Somewhere along this c**p journey it has to hurt or this will never end’. I know this is hurting you but your son appears to be fending off the pain and certainly his girlfriend does not appear to be helping. Controlling his addiction will hurt him but it will ultimately save him. You cannot save his girlfriend, you cannot save your son but you can save you and that, I promise you, is the best thing you can do for your son.
Keep posting

[velvet]

Hi Brummel
Welcome from me to GT – I hope you will soon feel the warmth of knowing you are far from alone and that there are things you can do to protect yourself and in doing so give your son the right support that appears to be lacking in his father.
I know it isn’t easy to adopt a different attitude towards a son when the mother’s natural leaning is towards giving and loving regardless of pain inflicted by a child’s selfishness – mothers reason that any problems developing in their child must be ‘their’ fault and therefore they can be crippled by unwarranted guilt and it is that feeling of unnecessary guilt which helps to feed the addiction.
Is your husband a compulsive gambler? A way to answer this would be to look at Gamblers Anonymous web site and see if you would apply more than 7 yesses to the 20 questions. If your husband is a CG (compulsive gambler) then unfortunately he may be getting a boost from his son joining him in his addiction.
You are not responsible for your son’s addiction even if you have unwittingly fed it (as I did for 25 years) you are still not to blame. You also cannot save him, only he can do that – but by saving the one person you can save which is ‘you’, you will give your son the greatest support of all.
I agree that your son’s relationship with his father makes this very difficult but if ‘you’ are in control of your life then you can be a place of safely when his world implodes. I cannot tell you that this will be easy because I know it won’t be – it is very tough to stand against a gambling addiction but I am here to walk with you because that is what I did and it changed my life.
Please tell me more about your relationship, for instance, is your son living with you, does he work, has he ever accepted he has a problem, does he want to change his life, do you have other children? If there are things you would prefer not to mention in this public forum then please make use of our Friends and Family Support group on Tuesdays between 20.00 and 21.00 hours UK time – nothing said in the group ever appears on the forum. You will be very welcome and you will be understood. Try and get in at the beginning because an hour can flash by all too quickly.
I will wait to hear from you again before I write more. You have done really well starting your thread, I will support you for as long as you want me to do so and ‘yes’ you can get through this.
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Hope
If your son chooses to read your thread then that is his choice – please write for you and you alone. He has been through the GMA programme but you have not had the benefit of that experience. The support he needs is available for him but this forum is a place for your recovery.
I won’t write much tonight as it is late and my bed is calling but I want to say that all CGs can read what is written here and sometimes it must make difficult reading for them but it is very important to remember that this forum is here for F&F, it is a place of safety where you can say the things that worry you without fear of retribution. It is how the addiction to gamble has affected you and nobody else that matters here. If you are strong then you can support your loved one better and this is the place to gain that strength.
I was concerned about mentioning the lull before the storm, especially when you had had a good weekend but I believe it is important to accept that they can still break and that it is therefore essential to have the right protection in place to keep out of the eye of the storm.
It’s great to hear you have booked a holiday – a time for you to get away and put all thoughts of addictive gambling to the back of your mind – I won’t say away because I know that will be almost impossible – I know you know what I mean.
Your son hopefully will use the tools he was given but if he chooses not to do so then he is making his choice. He can more forward or he can stick in the distorted world of gambling a bit longer – it is down to him but please don’t wait for him to make his choice before you take care of yourself. Make it your choice to be happy today.
Goodnight, sleep well
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Hope
A good weekend goes a long way to helping you feel better and also hopefully to helping your son to see how it could be if he applied himself to his recovery again.
I know what you want him to understand but it depends on what his addiction is doing to his mind whether or not he is capable of such understanding at the moment.
Whatever happens tomorrow and in the coming month, please look after yourself first. I am hoping that this weekend will have given him an incentive to pick up his tools but of course it could be the lull before the storm, the expectation of pay day giving him the ability to gamble.
My thoughts are with you
Speak soon
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Hazel
Well done starting your thread, I know how difficult it is to write the first post.
I am not surprised you are confused and hurt; you will almost certainly have been trying to make sense of the senseless and going round and round in circles.
Shattered trust takes time to build but it can be rebuilt when an honest gamble-free life is seen to be being lived. You have done the best thing to help your husband by coming here and starting your thread. He will be ashamed of what he is doing; he will feel out of control and worthless so he lies to protect himself and his possible addiction.
Those are the simple answers to your questions, taking them in, understanding what they mean and deciding what you want to do is more difficult, however by posting here you will gain knowledge to help you cope and make informed decisions.
When you gave your husband an ultimatum before you got married I suspect he knew you would carry it out which gave him the incentive to turn his life around and live a gamble-free for a couple of years – the good thing about this being that he knows he can do it. However if (as seems possible) your husband is a compulsive gambler he probably dry gambled in that time and although he abstained from physically indulging his addiction he didn’t control it. Dry gambling means that the gambler gambles in his mind which keeps the addiction alive until something triggers it and the cycle of addiction starts again. The forthcoming responsibility of being a father could be such a trigger although it could also be many other things.
Does he accept now that he has a problem?
Maybe it would help if you down loaded the 20 questions from the Gamblers Anonymous web site – a compulsive gambler will answer yes to at least 7 questions. If your husband does answer yes 7 times there is a lot of support available for him and there are many things that you can do to help you cope.
I will leave my first reply to you there a wait for your reply.
Velvet

[velvet]

Hi Paul
I cannot know from what you have said whether or not your wife has an addiction to gamble. Most CGs (compulsive gamblers) will gamble for fun at the beginning without realising that addiction is waiting for them and sadly the realisation doesn’t usually come until it is too late. It is important to note, I believe, that compulsive gamblers neither ask for nor want their addiction – they would love to be able to gamble responsibly but they cannot.
I hope you are wrong in your worries but you are right, I believe, to question what is going on, however, there is a lot of support nowadays for CGs and I hope you will put all thoughts of a breakdown in your marriage on a back burner until you are sure about the situation. Has your marriage been a happy one apart from these recent concerns?
Maybe it is time that you did know what is going on with your household accounts. If you wife has control over all the finances and yet she is found to be out of control with her gambling you may well find yourself with a significant debt in your name .
I cannot tell you what to do but as your wife is expressing the need to escape into a casino and you are worried about what is going on maybe marriage guidance counselling would be a better way forward for you both.
I suggest that you download the 20 questions from the Gambler Anonymous web site – compulsive gamblers will answer yes to at least 7 of the questions.
Speak soon
Velvet

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