[paul315]

Originally posted by cat438

A new month …
One day at a time my sweet lord…
Good morning Cat,
First, thanks for your kind words in your post to the Our Daily Pledge topic, words of encouragements are important to all. Your encouraging others to think about a monthly pledge (or pact Vera), in this "February" topic is also important and just as helpful, and I full-heartedly — a subtle reference to Valentine’s Day — follow you in making this additional pledge. Today I pledge to do all I can do in making February another gambling free month. 
It may seem contrary to the  ODAAT philosophy, but making a pledge to ensure the future can also be important; when we are planing for a trip or an event in the future, the goal that ***s ahead must be considered and kept in mind during the individual days of our everyday lives that lead up to that event.
The past may contain bad memories and fester fears of reliving them because of the time frame associated with the mere name of a particular month, but as you pointed out February 2013 is a new month, and you are a renewed you. Also, much more important than February having the fewest days (incidentally, this year it has one less than last year’s), it still consist of single days; single ODAAT opportunities to live a more normal way, and single days to have to confront anything that stands in the way of those better ***** and your progress.
Keep following the steps that you listed and that *** ahead of you, and continue to keep in mind that "it is not about getting through the month – it is about getting through today – one day at a time – it is not about beating my most gamble free time – it’s about a gamble free life".
God’s speed. Stay strong. Keep aware.LarryThanks to my Higher Power, My 3G's – God, GA, and GT,  "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free.

[paul315]

Originally posted by Crushedsoul

…  I am scared …
Good afternoon Crushedsoul, my name is Larry and I am a compulsive gambler, my last bet was October 2012. (My screen name is paul315, one I choose over three years ago when starting on my road to recovery, a road that led me out of my ****.)
Welcome to GT, here you will find that you are not alone, others here have shared in your pain, remorse, your losses, and your fear; we have all been scared and have all shared in your ****.  Some like myself have also had thoughts of suicide, but thankfully we recognized these feelings as wrong. We then started addressing them and the reasons behind them; we started working on our recovery and a return to a more normal way of thinking and living.
You came here for help in your gambling problem. You might also need to get some professional help for your suicidal thoughts, and some financial help for better ways to pay of your debts. Debts to a bookie are more complicated that to ones to legitimate creditors, but they too have to be addressed in a better way than adding to the amount by more gambling. You have to pay him, but you may be able to negotiate a better plan while having him cut you off from future bets, one that you will stick to; he wants his money, not your hide, taking your hide come if you don’t pay, not if you no longer make bets. 
The road to recovery requires us to reach out in many different directions, but the most important one is help for you mental state, do that now. As for the financial problems, you say that your would love to just quit but the amount that you own won’t let you; that is far from the truth. The truth of the matter is that your addictive controlled thinking is using the amount you owe as an excuse to continue gambling. The truth of the matter is that more gambling will not allow you to pay off what you owe; it will only add to the debt and give the addiction more power to cause you to chase more looses. The truth of the mater is that when a compulsive gambling stops gambling, the outlay of money is eliminated thereby increasing the income by removing the financial drain that was caused by gambling.
In the movie you subtlety reference, Groundhog Day; the main character did have to relive each gh day over and over. But he learned from his mistakes each time he was subjected to reliving the repeated groundhog days. Each repeated day started with the same things to dread; but in recognizing that he had to face the day anyway, he made changes for the better and stopped doing the wrong things that were making the life he had to live unmanageable. He eventually stopped  waking up to a repeated gh day and you can do the same in real life, but it takes making changes in your life, your thinking and your attitude — without change there will be no change.
Keep coming back here and participating in the services GT offers, look for a live help group in your area such as Gamblers Anonymous, be honest with your best friend and use the help that she can provide — she may be sleeping but you are the one that need to wake up before her help is no longer available, do all you can and use all the help that is available to you so your can combat this addiction.
God’s speed, use your Higher Power to guide and strengthen you.LarryThanks to my Higher Power, My 3G's – God, GA, and GT,  "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free.

[paul315]

Originally posted by bettie
… I didn’t gamble today-Gambling is not an option! …

Good morning Bettie,
I would like to add to Ican’s sentiments and say that I too am glad that you did not gamble Sunday. I am also glad that the help and support from you and others here is a powerful reason that I did not gamble Sunday either when I found myself driving toward "the scene of the crime"; thanks to you, and the others, I turned around and am accepting that gambling is not an option.
God’s speed. Stay strong.LarryThanks to my Higher Power, My 3G's – God, GA, and GT,  "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free.

[paul315]

Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to a normal way of thinking and living. GA Step 2
                   ________________________________________________________________________________
Being restored to a normal way of thinking an living also restores our desires and responsibility is be part of normal family functions and other activities.  This weekend I was able to do just that, it was my daughter’s and granddaughter’s birthdays, the 18th and 20th with a joint party on the 19th. It was a good "more normal" few of days in addiction to the preceding one of my commemorating my reclaiming a 90 Day milestone of continuous days of being gambling free.
However, at the conclusion of these normal activities and celebrations, I experienced and had to work through temptations to gamble, the same type of confrontations that others have recently posted about; we are not along in our recovery, nor are we different when it come to urges and temptations.  I told about this incident in the chat room earlier but telling it in more detail might help in facing other temptations, and even help others in making a choice when tempted or face urges.
I had rented a car for the weekend and on Sunday with nothing better to do I decided to drive across the rives to Illinois and a place that I used to hang out at on many evenings when I ran around to different bars and entertainment venues.  After crossing the bridge there is a choice in directions, one that leads to "Fast Eddie’s Bon Air", and one towards a nearby casino. It was an easy and normal chose for be to make to head for the bar, but it also awakened a temptation to head for the casino.
On reaching the parking lot of the bar it was full and overflowing and there was a line waiting to get in, a place that hold over 500 patrons is packed.  That is when the temptation became evident, I thought that I would go to the casino instead and just eat at the buffet, something that does not present a problem for me when that is the plan and not an afterthought.  When having to drive up and down the lanes of a much much larger parking lot of the also packed casino looking for a space, it became clear to me that I was using the buffet as an excuse to feed my addiction and not any hunger, I found myself in the right set of circumstances once again — but this time I did not find myself unguarded or in a stage of irrational reasoning;  it was far form easy but I drove out the exit and headed back to the bar. The wait to get in was over, a car just puled out of a close parking space, and I continued on doing what I had planed; I had an enjoyable evening of listening to music (not so great) and talking to a few of the people at the bar (I no longer try to mingle in the crowds surrounding the band in the extended floor space and area) — I am getting older and find myself putting a lot of my younger ways and tolerance to garage copy bands behind me.
In closing a warning to each here, to anyone thinking about trying to gamble again, anyone trying to satisfy an unsatisfying urge, or anyone trying to see if they might be "cured" and can gamble normally again. When you give in to a temptation or urge you are only strengthening and feeding the addiction, you are not bring about any relief or doing yourself or those around you any good at all — you are only causing more and undo hardships and devastation. When you awaken the beast as I had,  it is then harder to combat the addiction than it is to deal with it head-on during extended times of living gambling free — the urge will pass, but the consequences of giving in will linger on.
God’s speed. Stay strong. Keep aware of the circumstances surrounding you, and keep your guard up and fresh.LarryThanks to my Higher Power, My 3G's – God, GA, and GT,  "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free.

[paul315]

On the road of recovery, many obstacles confront us. Some are obvious and some are harder to spot. They may even come disguised as assets ~ from the GA Pamphlet "Beyond-90-Days"
               __________________________________________________________________________________
January 17, 2013 —  today I have once again reached the 90 Consecutive Day Milestone of not gambling, not gambling ODAAT. However, other than the title it is not entirely a deja vu experience, things are different than the first time. This time I find that thoughts of gambling are more prominent since I kicked at and awoke the beast, this time I have to do more than just let urges pass, this time I have to look for different ways and means to add to and reinforce the ways that worked in the past but somehow slipped from my mind 90 days ago.  Last time I was confident that my "last bet" was just that, my last bet, this time a am more cautious and conscience of the need to put more emphasis on not making the next bet than in resting on the laurels of what I "knew" was my last one.
Another part of the Beyond 90 Days pamphlet reminds me that its advice is just as good for me today after being in recovery for over three years as it was after my first three months, "This booklet is for those who have been in the fellowship more than 90 days – in some cases for many years. Having said that, 20 years away from a bet does not mean it will be 20 years before we make another".  When I reread this booklet this morning I found that I needed to not only be open-minded to advice and the history behind the sharing of others, I need to be more willing to follow through with what I learn from being open to different views; being open-minded "also means having a willingness to try".
For me to not have to revisit this milestone again, to not have to experience "deja vu all over again", I also recognize that I need to remember what brought be to this site and through the doors of my GA meetings in the first place. And to also remember what brought me this far and to this better and more normal way of thinking and living. For the former it was that gambling had made my life unmanageable and I had had Enough. For the latter the answer is it was following a program of recovery, and for a great part the answer is also it is the members here and at my meetings that offer support and show a caring for me and in being part of our community.  Thanks to one and all.
God’s speed. Stay strong. Don’t give up,we are worth the efforts and struggles.
Larry
Thanks to my Higher Power, My 3G’s – God, GA, and GT,  "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free.– 1/17/2013 10:51:36 AM: post edited by paul315.

[paul315]

Originally posted by Kathryn
… ive had a few issues with my husband gambling, he is spending a lot of time with his brother and a few friends that like to have a punt and when he does this he becomes someone i dont like, screaming at the tv, swearing and being basically unbearable … 
To live, that would be a great adventure – Peter Pan
Good morning Kathryn,
It is good to hear from you, and it has not been that long, just different than the first more different reports.  Enjoy your tennis trip, and be thankful that your husband wont be on the sidelines betting for are against you turning a good time into a "business" dealing so to speak.  Hopefully one day, and that it is before him crossing the line of "normal" gambling and compulsive gambling, he will realize that he is no longer enjoying the game, but, as a member of my group says, that he has digressed to only "watching his money being kicked up and down the field". At that time he can start enjoying the sport as you do and only have to deal with the adrenalin of the action and adventure, and not the frustration that causes the screaming and swearing. It might not ever get to the point that you will want him on the sidelines of your tennis court, but his being able to just watch and enjoy the games will make him less unbearable.
God’ speed. Stay strong.
Love (a term that in this case also applies to what your may be wanting your sister’s score to be).LarryThanks to my Higher Power, My 3G's – God, GA, and GT,  "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free.

[paul315]

Originally posted by bettie

Hi Guys,
Went to dinner with my brother at a favorite restruant last night. Much to my suprise my brother told me about some construction they were doing in the banquet room.
…They added VLT’s …
I guess I just have to get used to these things popping up all over the place. I feel much like my friend Pp, because there is no exclusion that could be enforced on these things.
bettie

Good morning Bettie,
I have come to see the video poker and  lottery terminals as no more part on my life than the lottery tickets sold everywhere, or the office sport pools as work. The gambling industry is everywhere.  When I first started on my road of recovery I could not visit New Orleans for almost a year because of the fear I had of these machines being at every turn, Missouri at the time was yet to allow them here as they do now in bars.  In fact, I am happy to say the the casinos here are not an attraction to me, but nevertheless it is still the power of my addiction that I have to deal with.
Thankfully I can recognize this controlling power and that helps me view these obstacles and "Step" (as in your GA Step program) around them. I know that I need to separate myself from the "devil within" more than the tools that he uses.  I even knew this when I gambled a few months back, that knowledge was at hand then but unfortunately I only recognized the truth enough to try and hide my wrongful actions form those around me; I drove hundreds of miles to feed the addiction and escape troubling news so at the time I would not be found out — but I immediately knew afterwards that had to share the events with others anyway. Just think, if I had not wasted a few hundred dollars on a hotel, car rental, and gas I would have had more funds to gamble, lol — a very poor joke but still a little funny in a way, humor is based on suffering and misfortune.
My telling of my actions again is a lead in to say, don’t try to get used to the machines, this will make them seem friendly and harmless, but hold on to the fact and truth that they are not part of "your" life, but merely part of the decor an attraction to others.  Keep working at separating yourself from the power of the addiction and let the gambling industry go about their business; the devil’s business. I recall that the first local GA conference I attended was held at facilities across the way from a newly opened casino, but we just has to deal with it; it wasn’t something to get used to, it was only an obstacle to overcome and "Step" over.  But as some precaution, your can try to only patronize the gambling free businesses that you know of, and get used to being surprised that the ones you choose may have joined the others that are popping up everywhere at any time — in Nevada even McDonald’s offers gambling (in addition to the gamble we are taking with our health  lol).
God’s speed. Stay strong. Keep aware.LarryThanks to my Higher Power, My 3G's – God, GA, and GT,  "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free.

[paul315]

Originally posted by sherry123

…posting to those that need it the most …

Good evening Sherry,
Thanks for your kind and insprining words, and your understanding if I neglete to post to you in any of your times of need.
As I have repeated in many of my post and replies, what I write in this my journal is entended for me as well as for any others. As the old Southern Gospel song proclaims, "It’s not my Brother, not my Sister, But it’s me, oh Lord Standing in the need of prayer".
God’s speed. Stay strong.LarryThanks to my Higher Power, My 3G's – God, GA, and GT,  "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free.

[paul315]

Originally posted by carole8755

"We don’t have to live the pain of every person that crosses our path." Interesting statement that one, because I believe that many, many cgs have internalized others’ pain, a good part of their life. We can feel compassion, but taking on the pain of others, makes us ineffective support people. …

Well said Carole, your words puts a better definition to the truth in the the subject of "living the pain of others".
The jest of my thoughts alone this subject and my posting was brought to mind by the message I referred to (the full message is copied below), but the reason for the thoughts was that in a recent meeting a fellow gambler shared some of his deep and cutting pain that brought tears to each of us there. Recognizing now that it was actually compassion and empathy that we were feeling does remove the imagined guilt of not being able to do anything about it other than offering support and hugs, other than to have and show compassion for the suffering of a friend.
God’s speed.

Today’s thought from Hazelden is:

Cheerfulness keeps up a kind of daylight in the mind, and fills it with a steady and perpetual serenity.
–Joseph Addison

Our Program allows us to stand back from day-to-day confusion and let serenity come into our lives. Our program doesn’t take away all the struggles and problems from life, but it does let us learn a different outlook and attitude.

We don’t have to get caught up in every storm that blows our way. We don’t have to live the pain of every person who crosses our path. We don’t have to right every wrong.

Our recovery is a gift to us from a power greater than we are. We become more and more aware of the meaning of the words in the Serenity Prayer: “God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference.”

Let me learn to see the world as it actually is, not as I want it to be. I trust that my Higher Power didn’t make a mistake in designing this world or the plans for my life.
You are reading from the book:
Easy Does It by Anonymous

 LarryThanks to my Higher Power, My 3G's – God, GA, and GT,  "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free.

[paul315]

Originally posted by runninggirl… It is my journey …
Good morning RG, and the others that may read this post,
It was good to read you kind and expiring words. And the part quoted above is a good reminded to us that ths is our journey, and as lone it is a true and positive one it will lead us away form the powers of this addiction.
In a reply to another post this morning I was reminded of some of the ways and means that help me on my journey, e.g. "enjoying my coffee at this virtual coffee house while reading post and other inspirational messages". My daily journey begins with this preparedness (and for the most part it works), including meditating on readings form GA pamphlets, Hazelden*, Our Daily Bread – the thought behind my topic "Our Daily Pledge", and different Biblical Scriptures and profound writings found in other religious teachings (ones Higher Power is represented is many forms of communications and is just as personal as "our" journey). I do this to refresh my thoughts and strengthen my resolve before my making a pledge to not gamble each day. 
I wish I had time to reply to each one here, nevertheless I am able to read most of the post, but as many of you know, that is not always possible.  A recent message message from Hazelden that was emailed to me by Ken L* did help relieve some of the disappointment I find in not being able to respond to all,  e.g. "We don’t have to get caught up in every storm that blows our way. We don’t have to live the pain of every person who crosses our path. We don’t have to right every wrong". However, I still do feel the pain in every person that post; we are not alone in this problem, and we feel and share in each pain that is shared by others.
So this post is mainly to tell others that I do care even thought I can not reply to all, or can not even try to help more in your righting each wrong that I read about; with this being "my" journey, it is hare enough to try and right my own wrongs. And this is even stressed to be the best way to deal with our problems; we have to put ourselves first in our recovery.
So please except my inability to reply to all as part of life itself and not as slighting anyone or downplaying any problem. And more important, except my thanks and graduate to what each of you do here for all of us in your limited time to participate.
God’s speed. Stay strong. Keep aware and active.
* For those that miss Ken L’s  Reflection for the Day  topic you can still read the past messages.
 LarryThanks to my Higher Power, My 3G's – God, GA, and GT,  "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free.

[paul315]

Originally posted by frozen
 … Life is better …

Good morning Frozen, aka ___ ___ ___, and the Guru of the Waffle Cone philosophy ( see Waffle Cones at the Casino and Waffle Cones at the Casino – Part 2),
Good to see a post from you, although with it being a year after your last one here, I see it more as being late than early, yet timely just the same.
Hope that your next winter post will tell how "Life is Good", not just better.
 LarryThanks to my Higher Power, My 3G's – God, GA, and GT,  "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free.

[paul315]

Originally posted by slotjunkie

It has been a long time since i been here on site.  I have a new date of 1/5/13.   Have not gone to casino but have played slots on phone and computer.  Not for money but did buy a slot machine to play on phone.   Did it to escape my troubles and the worries.  
… Beginning to think i was meant to always gamble …
 

Good morning SJ,
First well done on your gambling free time, all of the quality time that has helped and strengthen you to continue with your journey; recovery is not a destination, it is a journey, a journey that is measured by progress.
As for gambling without money is concerned, for me it is up to each of us a CGs to make this type of decision for ourselves. I know that the International GA program states that "Gambling for the compulsive gambler is defined as follows: Any betting or wagering, for self or others, whether for money or not, no matter how slight or insignificant, where the outcome is uncertain or depends upon chance or ‘skill’ constitutes gambling". But personally, I lean more towards the UK GA policies that do not define gambling in any way. I believe that we do not necessary need a definition, and feel that the GA definition might even be a little harmful in that it may give the impression of justifying gambling by CGs not ready to except the facts about the addiction,  Because of the general definition being argumentive as to what is "uncertain" a "chance", or what is "skill", (something akin to a notorious legal political statement a few years back dealing with certain immoral actions of our president e.g. "depends on what the definition of "is" is. When we are in action and under the control of this addiction, any gambling in spite of any definition is not seen as compulsive gambling, or even just gambling most of the time.  I do agree the the part "no matter how slight or insignificant" is highly signficant in any actions we take to feed our addiction of compulsive gambling.
Your free slot play falls in this category and one where you have to make the determination of it being gambling or not. And alos begs an answer the more important question, "will your ‘free’ play keep your mind open to the embedded characteristic properties of gambling and cause you to venture back out into the world of compulsive gambling for money?";  thinking that any wins there also relate to your chance at winning money, or will any series of losses cause you to think that your luck is due to change so why not use it to win money.  Recovery is not easy and takes a lot of sole searching and choices.
Now I will take the opportunity to spout off on some layman’s thoughts concerning the psychological views on us being the person that we are meant to be, on your statement, "Beginning to think i was meant to always gamble".
What we are meant to be at ***** causes a conflict between our "desired state of being" and our "actual state of being" at any given time.  The degree of discrepancies between the two, and the level of "spiritual" qualities represented, is what defines any problems we have to face when choosing what path we should follow. When the differences are great we live in a struggle between the two; having to listen to both the devil and the angle on either shoulder so to speak. When there is little difference there is less chaos and less need to escape the challenges, it is just part of the diversified adventures of life. Some***** the actual state is the one where we should choose to remain when the desired state holds disruptions in a "normal" way of living, or goes against the laws of the land, nature, or the environment and social atmosphere we live. And if the desired state holds the greatest virtues and characteristics, it is the one that should be pursued.
Compulsive gambling is neither a desired or actual state of being or to live in, it is a third unnatural state of being; the state of addiction is one that we have no rational reason to accept or keep. We need to combat and put it behind us so that we can again choose between the natural states of desire and actual; nurturing the one that is best at advancing the real person that is good and processes the spiritual characteristics of the human mind that represent the highest and finest qualities such as kindness, generosity, honesty and humility. 
Thanks for the use of your topic and statement. Spouting off my thought to others is helpful to me, and perhaps can be helpful to others, even if confusing it can make them think.
God’s speed. Stay strong. Keep aware. And be careful in choosing between any desired state of being and the actual one.
 LarryThanks to my Higher Power, My 3G's – God, GA, and GT,  "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free.

[paul315]

Originally posted by ChubbycatI just dont know how to do this again Chubby
Good afternoon Chubbycat – Cc as I refer to you; aka P and Pp in the chat rooms
It looks like your have found a way; in your "ditch(ing) the mask & take(ing) ownership of your addiction" ~ Harry of GT, and returning to your topic New Beginging… Help by P  (for those here that do not know you as P), is a good start.
God’s speed.LarryThanks to my Higher Power, My 3G's – God, GA, and GT,  "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free.

[paul315]

Originally posted by bettie

…  "keep your side of the street clean." …

Hello again Bettie, second post related to one of yours today.
Keeping our side of the street clean is the best actions that we can take in our recovery, the things that we have any control over and that will benefit us.  We can not concern ourselves with what others think or what they do; theirs, and the gambling industry’s, other sides of the streets that we travel during our journey are the slippery sides that can cause us to fall off the edge. 
Good advice, it and walking on that clean and safer side reminds me of the metaphor found in "THERE’S A HOLE IN MY SIDEWALK" an Autobiography in Five Short Chapters By Portia Nelson, see http://www.lessons4living.com/sidewalk_of_life.htm#THERE’S A HOLE IN MY SIDEWALK.
God’s speed. Stay strong. Keep aware.
 LarryThanks to my Higher Power, My 3G's – God, GA, and GT,  "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free.

[paul315]

Originally posted by bettie
… I think we compulsive gamble to in some way continue the abuse we suffered …
Food for thought.

Good morning Bettie,
You asked about the GA conference in April, it is a little too early in my straighting out my mess to commit to additional spending, but things are looking up and I will give it some thought. Another meeting that is coming up that I know that I can’t make is the one in Kansas City next month. My living relatively close to and in the middle of these two cities has been a plus for me in attending both conferences, but my also being caught up in the middle of the consequences of my recent actions takes away from that; another consequence that comes from being caught unguarded and in the right circumstances.
About your thoughts on self-abuse, your food for thought only adds credence to one of the charismatics of a CG e.g. "there is a theory that compulsive gamblers subconsciously want to lose to punish themselves". However, in using therapy or by just working the steps of your GA program, especially Steps 4 and 11, teaches us that with the help from our HP we can move past those times and start rewarding the good person that we actually are instead. 
You also speak of physical therapy. I received an exercise bike for Christmas and how that I will faithfully use it to get myself in better condition. Using it souled not add any additional stress to my old bones, and hopefully will help in losing some of the weight that is adding stress.  One feat that I hold is that a few years back when I lose a lot of my excess weight I used one at the fitness room available at work, at that time working out required more energy and I was afraid that I would eat more to supply it, so I stopped and just controlled my eating habits. Something that I can not seem to do now, so exercise may now be the answer. But thanks to your warnings about torn ligaments, I will try not overextend.
I had a torn ligament a couple of years ago and it takes along time to heal. Fortunately It did not require surgery, but did call for therapy and rest. I also experienced the same needs when I had some bone spurs in my shoulder. Then I was giving the choice of having an operation — a  forced movement of the arm to break the spurs loose that they called an operation, or therapy sessions. The surgery also called for the same amount of therapy afterwards to help in healing the broken bones, so I opted for just the therapy – for a therapist to get off by inflicting more pain on me lol, but that worked out for the best. Give a lot of consideration to your choice, only have the operation if there is no other option.  Just my food for thought as a layman, not medical advice.
God’s speed. Stay strong.
 LarryThanks to my Higher Power, My 3G's – God, GA, and GT,  "Day Two Is Another Day Behind" and with the help from all I hope to continue to remain gambling free.

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