[onajourney]

Sorry I wasn’t able to make it to the meeting today, I had a work obligation I couldn’t reschedule.

That said, I decided last night to take the outline of the CG/Non-CG cycle that I’ve read on here and put my own words and my own cycle into that narrative, so that I can see just what the cycle is for ME. And then work on the ways I can stop replaying that over and over again. I think that’s a good first step for me to work on me.

I do take care of myself with my own hobbies and the like, so I haven’t lost myself in that sense. I learned from my relationship to make sure to take care of myself.

So for now, i’m not going to work on trying to solve her issue, I can’t anyway. She has to be the one to be willing, do the work, work harder at it than I am, and she has to come up with the solutions and then carry those out. Me, my part is to work on what I do stay in the non-cg cycle and to get out of it.

I thank you all again for your kind words and your support/advice. I’m going to begin putting some of these things into practice.

By the way what’s gobsmacking??? I’m from across the big pond you see and have no idea what that word means!

OAJ

[onajourney]

Soooo, here we are, was she successful? nope.

BUT….

I did something different. I saw that she had pulled some money out of the bank, in our hometown rather than at the ATM at the casino. Now I know that that was done in an attempt to try and prove she wasn’t going to the casino but I knew better. She had sent me a message telling me ahead of time that she was taking out her “spending money” because she didn’t have any cash, but the amount is what struck me. The feeling I have (because with the connection I have with her, I can feel it when she’s going to go).

So here’s what I did differently. When I saw the withdraw happen, I called her. Before she went to the casino. Before I would wait until after or while she was there to try and get in touch with her which only fueled my own anger about the whole thing.

We had a long conversation about the cycles, about what she’s doing to keep this hidden. She basically tells me what I want to hear so that I won’t be mad at her for going, so she tries to make me feel better before it even happens. I know that’s what she’s doing and the thing that that sets up is the non-CG part of the cycle. She says she wants to quit, comes up with all these plans and things to do to keep her from going. Says all the right things to me to make me feel better about it and to I don’t know, maybe try and foster some trust on my part. But the thing of it is, it’s all a charade. I’m not fooled by it, deep down inside she probably knows I’m not fooled by it, and I told her tonight, exactly that. And I even went so far as to tell her the only one she’s REALLY trying to fool is herself because she knows deep down that what she’s doing is wrong. So when she tells me what I want to hear, in an attempt to make me feel better, what she’s really doing is attempting to make herself feel better and to try and hide this within herself and so she does not have to deal with the consequences of her choices.

I’m done with my part of the cycle. When she tells me that she’s not going to the casino but I can already see the behavior starting that happens before she goes to the casino, instead of saying “okay” or “sure” or whatever responses I’ve been giving, my response is going to be “I don’t believe you.” I won’t lie if I do believe her I’ll tell her but if I don’t I’m also not going to hide that away anymore.

I told her tonight as well that it doesn’t matter what I say, think, do or feel. She tried to interrupt me and tell me that it does matter, but I brought it to her attention that she tells me what I want to hear, tells me to help hold her accountable, but then it cycles around to her being mad at me because I do exactly what she tells me to do (hold her accountable) and she feels like I’m controlling her. I said I’m not going to participate in that game anymore. and because it goes in this cycle, what I say doesn’t matter because you’ll just go do what you want anyway. So the next time she tells me what she thinks I want to hear, I’m going to stop her and I’m going to tell her I don’t believe her. Because I sure as heck shouldn’t be working harder at this trust thing than she is.

She’s not ready to quit. She thinks she can manage it, even though over and over again she’s tried different ways to manage it that didn’t succeed. Even tonight I heard “I’m only going to spend $100” but that wasn’t for me, that was for her. Did she spend the $100? Nope, she got more out of the bank.

Anyway, I’m babbling, all I can say is when I read the other day how the CG/Non-CG cycle works, I made the decision that I’m going to break my part of that cycle. I heard once in a Gam Anon meeting that I don’t have to trust her in order to love her.

She thinks we’re measuring progress differently, I had to point out to her that our measurement for progress is the same, it’s the starting point we have a difference about, and since we’re starting from 2 different places the measurement of progress is going to look different. I’m looking at it from Abstinence & Recovery (true recovery as you have said Velvet) and she’s looking at the starting point from Management & Control.

The funny thing is, we both know she can’t manage or control it, but she’s really been fooled into believing she can. And like I said on an earlier comment, I think it goes back to the fact that at one point she could walk into a casino, play for fun for a little while, spend only what she planned on spending, playing only as long as she planned on playing and didn’t have a urge/compulsion to play more. And somewhere along the way that switch was flipped and when that happens you can’t go back. You can never go back to the way it was before, isn’t that what they say in the GA book? That’s the grand illusion and gamblers wreak havoc on their lives because they believe they can gamble like other people even though the proof in their history says otherwise.

Anyway, going to sign off for now. I don’t think my post made a whole lot of sense, but what I can tell you is, I’m going to find a way to break my non-CG cycle. I have to figure out what my part in that cycle is and then find the place where I break it. Cuz I’m done playing my part of the charade. I’m not leaving her or abandoning her but I’m not going to continue with my part of the cycle anymore either.

OAJ

[onajourney]

Hi Velvet and Vera,

Thank you both for commenting. So last wed things went well, she didn’t go, she did what she was supposed to do and came home. To which I was greatly relieved and proud of her. My attitude even improved greatly for a few days.

Today she will be back in that area near the casino. She’s been hit or miss the last few days with our daily readings/prayers, which she’s been the initiator of. She missed today, but to be fair I have a work issue going on and couldn’t do it this morning like normal.

That being said, some of the other things she came up with doing in order to help keep her out of that place she’s not following through on. For example, where she’s going she had stated that she would take one of her dogs with her so that when she leaves she has the dog and would never the leave the dog in the car while she went and gambled. She does not have children of her own, so her pups are like that for her. Did she take the dog? Nope. Said she’s leave her ATM/Credit cards at the house and only carry enough cash with her for what she needs. Did she do that? Nope, not that that would actually matter, she can go write an electronic check at the casino cage for what she wants and all she needs is her drivers license. She won’t/can’t leave that at home because then she could not travel for work.

So, all that said, we’ll see if she actually stays out of the casino tonight.

In the mean time, Vera I wanted to say that something you wrote really struck me. The whole uncover, discover, recover, and re-discovery process. I know what you’re talking about and for some reason that really struck me the other day when I read your reply.

My frustration for me I think is right now knowing she will be heading to that area where the casino is in the next hour or so and I’m sitting here at home, watching all the dogs, and I so wanted her to do her daily GA readings/prayers, I so wanted her to leave that ATM and extra cash on the counter because those are things she came up with. But why am I angry that she didn’t? Why am I angry that I’m already more than 1/2 way expecting her to go, just by the behavior I’m already seeing. Why am I angry about it at all? You know when someone is already planning in and you know there is nothing you can do to stop it (thankfully my finances are protected so it’s not like it’s impacting my checkbook at all, other than she puts herself in situations where she’s having to rob Peter to pay Paul so to speak to pay her bills). Why am I angry when the behavior pattern and my expectations all match and yet I’m still angry? Shouldn’t it sort of be that I would say ya know what, nothing’s changed so why get worked up over it. Why do I have this expectation that she wants to change that she will change? She won’t do this till she’s ready, and something in my gut tells me she’s not ready yet. She denies wanting to go see a counselor. She hasn’t made her daily routine a priority just yet, and I realize that when you’re first trying a new habit/routine, you miss a few days, but…..

Why am I angry? Is it because she told me once again as she left the house that “I’m not going to the casino, okay? I’m tired and I have a long day and work and I just want to go do what I have to do for this work thing and come home.” But those are almost the same exact words she used the last time she went to the casino? Am I angry because I hear those words and I want to believe them and maybe even a small part of me does, yet something tells me I can’t trust those words yet. Not yet, she hasn’t done this consistently enough over a long enough period of time for me to trust her word yet. Is it because of being lied to? Not purposely mind you, I don’t even think she recognizes in her own head what she’s saying to herself to make it okay to go, yet with her mouth she’s totally denying she’s going. So in a sense, she believes what she’s saying when she tells me that. I don’t think she intentionally tries to lie, or maybe that’s my denial, I don’t know. All I know is, I’m sitting on the edge of my seat, waiting anxiously for the next several hours to go by so whatever happens will be over with. Whether she goes and we go through the cg/non-cg cycle all over again tonight or she doesn’t go and she comes home and is really happy with herself for holding strong for another day. Either way, I’m just anxiously waiting for the night to be over with.

All that to say this, I’m angry, so now what do I do about that? I can’t control this, I can’t make her do the things she needs to do, and I’m angry that I can’t make her. So I guess I need a little “surrendering” and “letting go” myself eh? So how do I do that??

OAJ

[onajourney]

Hi Velvet,

That was a great comment. I love what you said “I liken it to putting down a heavy load, a burden that was so great it weighed down every aspect of the life it inhabited. Freedom is precious and worth fighting for, so having gained freedom the CG is better equipped to fight the addiction,”

So what you’re saying is that for true recovery, yes abstinence is part of it, but really it’s about the letting go, the surrender that has to happen. If that happens then the true recovery really is in process. I know what you’re referring to because there was a time in my life that I struggled with control. not an addiction, but just life in general, things happening to me that were outside of my control and i fought them, tried to change them, tried to solve them, work around them, tried everything to make it go away and it wasn’t until I came to a breaking point, literally a mental breaking point, where I reached out to God (sorry if we’re not allowed to talk about God here, it’s just my story) and from the depths of my soul had to shout and get angry and ask him if he even loved me. It was after that when I finally just surrendered. Just said you know what, life is going to be and do to me what it will and I can either fight it or I can go with the flow (and it really is a flow). The moment I surrendered, was the very moment that my burden was noticeably lifted and my life forever changed, almost automatically. I wasn’t solving anything anymore, not trying to change my circumstances anymore, and voila everything changed.

is that sort of what you’re talking about with “true recovery.” That that surrender has to happen where the burden is lifted and acceptance made?

If so, and I probably already know the answer to this but I’ll ask your thoughts anyway, how does one come to the place of letting go, surrender, acceptance?

I’ll wait to hear your response! And thank you so much for the thoughful words you’re sharing, it does help to take the edge of my emotions a great deal. So thank you for the struggles you’ve had that have brought you to a place where you can help others, you’re a shining light V!

OAJ

[onajourney]

Thanks for going in and commenting on my post!

With my SO the good news is I don’t get a lot of the blame part of the CG cycle. She knows better than to blame me, or others for that matter for her decisions.

I think for the most part I will be able to detect her progress in recovery because doesn’t it really all come down to actions? I’m a very observant person and I’ll know if this is for real or not just by the way we deal with this. If it’s for real then she’s going to take the initiative, I won’t have to push for it. And yes in my mind, like you, it’s a about changing things not just once, but repeatedly, consistently, over a long period of time, which is what I shared with her last night.

The good news (for both you M and V) is that she didn’t go to the casino today. She held to her word. Which of course, for today I’m relieved, happy about, and most certainly proud of her for. The question is, will she maintain that same behavior every time, consistently over a long period of time. Only time will tell, but at least for today she didn’t go.

I’m doing my best to try and stay out the way, and to not drive the ship so to speak, this has to be her taking the initiative, her having to make it a priority, her having to actually be the one to come up with the solutions and I will support, not the other way around.

But for today, it was a good day. The next big test will be the next time she’s in that same area near the casino, will she repeat what she did this time? I don’t know, we’ll see!

[onajourney]

I did have one question for you though V. i know abstinence and recovery are not the same thing, but I’d like to know from you what you think the differences are? What is recovery in your mind vs. just staying away from the casino?

OAJ

[onajourney]

That was a good response. Couple of things come to mind while reading it. You and I agree she needs therapy with people who understand her and yes she’s got that therapist chip on her shoulder about ‘I know what I need to do” thing. But you’re absolutely right, I don’t know if it’s a matter of her not knowing how to put into action what she knows she needs to do, or if it’s some sort of motivator/want to/will/decision/something…I’m not sure. I know you’re right, abstinence and recovery are not the same thing. However, you can’t have recovery if you aren’t abstinent.

Today is the big test. She is in the area where the casino is right as I’m typing this. Her meeting should be over with here soon. She just pinged me and sent me her location (something she chose to do, not because I asked her to). So I know she’s not at the casino right now. The question will be in a few minutes when her meeting is over and she’s supposed to call me before leaving the parking lot will be the true test. So I wait with baited breath hoping that at least for today on a day that is her biggest trigger and challenge, that she will choose to follow through on what she said.

She’s been working hard the last 48 hours to tell herself over and over, “I”m not going, get in the car, call home, and leave. I’m not going….” She’s been planting that seed in her head and from what she told me this morning before she left the house, what normally would happen is that she would already be starting with the excitement of going to the casino, and she would already in her head be there, but this morning she said she doesn’t feel that way. So hopefully she’ll be able to carry through with it.

I also agree with you that I have no intention on giving her my screen name so she can go look at my posts in the forums. I don’t want her reading my stuff. It’s one thing for me to talk about the support I’m getting from in here, and even talk a little bit about what I might be feeling/expressing on this site because that I can filter without giving away too much and it’s good for our relationship to at least share some of this. On the other hand I totally agree with you, I’m here to get the support I need and if she chooses to join the site as well, we need to keep our individual activities on here totally separate. I shouldn’t be reading her stuff (and she shouldn’t be giving me her screen name) and she shouldn’t be reading my stuff. We can talk generally speaking about together if we feel so inclined, but not in detail. I want to focus on me while I’m in here and she focus on herself while she’s in here.

I feel even a measure of relief from my emotions just by the few days I’ve been on here and talking to people. It’s hard to hold all that raw emotion inside so that you don’t blow up at your partner and puke all your emotional baggage on them. It doesn’t help the situation anyway.

So….i’m going to allow her the freedom to fight this addiction on her own. I’ve already started. This morning while she was on her way to her meeting, she called me, and asked me if I wanted her to send me the location of where she was at when she got to work. I told her that if she felt like that was the right thing to do, then by all means do it, but i wasn’t asking her too, nor was I going to babysit or be her policeman. She replied back that she would be doing for herself and for accountability. I said that’s completely up to you. She just sent me her location about 10 minutes ago all on her own. I never brought it up again.

So hopefully these are all positive steps. We had a good long talk about this and some other relationship thigns last night and one of the things I told her was that that its great that she’s making these steps, but in order for my belief and trust in her word to come back it’s going to take her holding to her word consistently, every time, over a long period of time. It’s not just a one time thing and boom the trust is back. she agreed and understood that. So I’m just trying my best to get out of the way and let her be the one coming up with solutions. Me, I’m just trying to keep my own emotions in check and I’m really fighting that thing inside of me that wants to fix it all but knows I can’t! That’s probably the hardest thing a F&F person can do. So I read and re-read, and re-read over again the serenity prayer. Knowing that in this particular case, I cannot change this thing. I just need to let God work his work in her and I’ll sit back and be patient.

So that’s where I am today.

Onajourney

[onajourney]

I should add btw, that there has been progress that’s been made. She used to beg me to go to the casino in the evenings after work, or on the weekends. To which I always answered, that’s your decision not mine (or something along those lines). however, she doesn’t ask that anymore, nor does she go. The challenge I have with replacing the casino use with something else is the only days she seems to now go on, is during the day. She runs the satellite office for her company in our ******. Her company’s main office is in a town an hour away, but like 10 minutes from the casino. what she’s been doing lately is she goes up on Wed’s for her management meeting to the home office, but she doesn’t schedule in appointments in her calendar for that day until much later in the afternoon, thereby giving her several hours of a window where she gives herself the room to go. now yesterday she told me that she’s not going to do that anymore. but the problem is, the only time she’s super triggered to go is when she’s actually near the place, otherwise it’s not so hard for her to resist. She’s not going in the evenings anymore and not on the weekends anymore. So replacing her midweek, during the day trip is harder to fill with fun social things since it’s right in the middle of the workday. Her meetings get over with around 11:30 in the morning so if she were to schedule her next appt at 1 or 1:30 that doesn’t give her enough time or opportunity to go because that extra time is spent traveling back to her appointment. so I just thought I would also throw that out there!

[onajourney]

So when you say “do it first.” what specifically were you talking about! Lol. You mean to meet new people and go do things outside of the house that are interests of ours? Tough to do, she sometimes gets up at 7 and is out the door by 8 and not home till 7, so she’s exhausted from dealing with other people’s mental and emotional baggage, so we rarely do things during the week. Saturday’s we try to get out and do things together, and Sunday’s she stuck home doing paperwork for work all day. Her company is still in teh 90’s and does actual paper paperwork for all her clients. Seriously, I keep telling them they need to move to electronic records, timesheets, expense reports, etc, but they are in the stone ages.

Anyway, any suggestions???

[onajourney]

Oh and I did want to tell you I had already blocked off that time in my calendar so I could attend that F&F group meeting. So I’ll be there!

[onajourney]

Hi Velvet!

Thanks for replying to my post. It does help just to be able to put my thoughts and feelings out there instead of holding it in, for sure. I try to be very conscientious about how I communicate with my SO. So I try to let my initial feelings happen internally, so I don’t just say the first thing on my mind and then be hurtful. So it’s nice to now have a place that I can let those initial thoughts/feelings out so I can process them and be very thoughtful in my communication with my SO. It’s one of the things that is our strongest trait in our relationship is our ability to communicate without blame, criticism, and judgment.

You made some very good points that I’m going to definitely ponder. In particular these 2:

“Finding the words or actions they don’t recognise, in your case, ‘might’ be the different approach required.”

And

“I don’t think that bargaining or contracts make a scrap of difference.”

You are absolutely correct, she knows all the right things to say, and so do I. I would be curious to hear from you what your ideas are on what words I could use that she wouldn’t recognize?

And you are also correct in that none of the contracts we’ve made, none of the agreements we’ve had have made a hill of beans worth of difference. The bottom line is she has to want it, and so far she’s wavered on that.

The thing I hear most often is she wants to be able to manage this. On one hand she enjoys the recreation of being able to go into a casino for a little while, like you and I would enjoy going to a book club or doing crafts (not that you like these things, just trying to make a point…) But the problem is she can’t control her behavior while there. She always spends more than she plans to, usually to the detriment of being able to pay her bills. She never stays as long as she plans to. And the thing of it is, she knows she has a problem. She’s told me she does. I hear 2 different things at the same time. I have a problem, but I want to manage my behavior. So, in terms of step 1 of GA, she’s got the “admitting I have a problem” part down, but the acceptance of it, and the acceptance that she can’t actually control this is where she’s in denial.

To answer your question, yes she’s expressed many times a desire to stop gambling. We’ve talked about the things she needs to do and the things she needs to put in place in order to do that, but it comes down to wanting to actually follow through on it, consistently over a long period of time. And that’s where it breaks down for her. Yes she has been to GA meetings before but she doesn’t go regularly. In fact we were going together at least to the open meetings that are near us. the closed meetings, where they actually do the step work happens at a different GA meeting location that is too difficult for her to attend, both because of distance and time. It conflicts with her work schedule.

There was a time, where for almost 90 days she didn’t go to the casino. She was doing very well, I was feeling more secure and trusting. Things were going well, and then one day she somehow convinced herself that maybe she could go and gamble like normal people. That she could go in there for recreational use and not get caught up in the compulsive nature of it. But the first time she went in there, was it. As they say in GA, the first bet is the one to avoid right? Well it’s been an up and down rollercoaster ever since.

She realizes that she needs to go back and do what she was doing in those 90 days. But getting her to do it, and getting her to keep doing it is the challenge.

One thing I do want to mention, she may be one of the rare cases where she knows what her triggers are. There was a time when she could walk into a casino and just play recreationally. Spend only what she planned to spend, stay only as long as she had planned to stay, but there came a point where the switch was flipped and she’s never been able to get back to that place again. And I think that’s where she’s stuck. She feels that since she did it before, she should be able to do it again. But the truth is, I think for those who have moved into an addiction, you can never go back to that place and that’s the part I think she has a hard time accepting. If I did it before, why can’t I do it now?? Ya know, that’s the lie they tell themselves. That’s the lie that the addiction will tell them.

But, most of what I’ve written has been about her. I think for me, the support I need is just to be able to have a place I can express my most raw emotions about this. I’m sure you know that it’s very hard for those on our side of the fence. There is nothing we can do to make this stop. There is nothing we can do to make the person we love quit. Even though we know that, we still try anyway. I know I can’t make her stop, I know I can’t even make her want to. And that’s frustrating. And it’s painful. I saw someone else’s post on here that the gambling for us is not even the primary issue, of course it’s a huge issue, but the bigger issue for us is the being lied to, the being manipulated, the broken trust, the dishonesty. For my SO and I, we have worked hard to just be open/honest about her going. I’m not nearly as mad at her for going when she tells me the truth about it. But she adds the lying and deceiving and the sneakiness about it on top of going, then that is what really angers me. She has no reason to hide this from me, at least I’ve never given her any reason to lie or sneak. But I know it has nothing to do with me, it has to do with her and her guilt and shame about it all.

So I guess, given my long verbose response, all I really wanted to say was even with the little bit of communication I’ve had on this site, I already feel a little bit of relief. I don’t have family or friends that I can talk to about this. My family doesn’t know and I don’t plan to tell them for a number of reasons. Her family knows but plays the ostrich with their head in the sand thing about it, they have another child going through alcohol addiction recovery. I believe there is a genetic component to this in their family, they have a family that has had many addicts of different sorts through several generations. And I can’t search out local counseling because she knows everyone in that field so I have to be careful not to put her in a compromising position with her job. And I can’t share it with friends, for the same reason (not that we have many right now, not because of the gambling, but actually just because we both moved back to our hometown recently and lost touch with a lot of our friends so from that front we’re sort of starting over). So it’s nice to have a place I can go to really let some of this stuff out, and it’s already been a little bit of relief, and I’m sure more is to come.

So thank you! I appreciate you taking the time to respond!

onajourney!

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