[nomore 56]

Hi James, I have been reading your posts and agree with each and every reply you got. I think you and your attorney came up with an excellent plan. There is just one thing I would like to suggest to you when you design your parenting/visitation plan for the separation. Your daughter is still very young and I don’t know how responsible your wife is with her. But since she seems to leave work to go gambling, it might be a good idea to include a paragraph in the agreement to not allow her, to take your daughter anywhere alone. At least not when it comes to driving around. I know it sounds paranoid and even silly maybe but there are unfortunately a lot of cgs who let the addiction just run amok and forget about their kids. Leaving them in the car is very evidently here in my state. Happens all the time. I also don’t know how your mil handles her daughters addiction, is she is realistic and supports you or if she is minimizing it. This addiction is very dangerous and it wouldn’t be the first time that a cg puts others in harms way. Better safe than sorry is what learned over the years. I don’t want to add to your worries but since you are calling the shots right now, it might be the right time to prevent something really awful. I wish you luck!

[nomore 56]

Hi Sjb, let me start by saying that there is nothing for you to feel guilty about. You have evidently tried for a long time to keep the family together and it didn’t work. It was his choice, not yours. Your choice was to take care of yourself and your kids and bring some peace and quiet to your life. His choice was and still is to keep his addiction alive and well, no matter what. I think that we often doubt if we really did try enough, long enough, hard enough and why do we look for happiness when the cg is living in misery? You see, this guilt is what the addiction uses as a tool to keep going. Do you think your hb would have attended the game if he had money for gas? I don’t. There comes the guilt. Your son missed his father at the game and only because you wouldn’t fork over some money. As for the consequences, everyone is different in that department. My hb spent a year in prison for a crime he committed to finance his gambling. In the process, he lost his family, meaning not only myself and our daughter but also his daughter from his first marriage and his extended family. And his civil rights, and his career, his retirement, our house, the cars. You name it, it was gone. Was it enough? No, he relapsed right away and his justification was that now there was no reason to work on his recovery. What the heck, everything was gone, his life was destroyed so he might as well kept on gambling. Just like you I was stunned and couldn’t believe what I was seeing. It went on for another 5 1/2 years until he reached his personal rock bottom and completed a longterm inpatient treatment. But not because I made him, not for us, for himself. And it worked. I listened to the daily mantra of nobody cares, who cares, nobody loves me, you are all out to get me, I have no reason to quit gambling, etc., etc. for the whole 5 1/2 years and just wish I would have had the chance to do what you did, chose freedom. I think you did great and your kids will thank you, if not now than when they are older and look back at the insanity that was life with a cg. I wish you all the best, stay strong and hopefully nobody in your family will cave in and throw good money after bad. 🙂

[nomore 56]

Hi Gidge, your plan sounds good. A plan B offers some kind of comfort just in case push comes to shove. It sounds like reality is somehow sinking in for him. No transportation, sources for money drying up and a separation on the horizon. I am very happy for you and your kids that you put them first. Some of us forget about the children being lost in the shuffle of addiction. I was thinking that you should not worry about where he lives. Easier said than done. But he is the one who has to make choices now and you have enough to think about. The addiction is very good at threatening, both verbally and quietly (the dark cloud). I can’t count the times my hb indirectly threatened to harm himself. So that I felt sorry for him, worried about him and finally gave in. Doubting myself that I might be too harsh with him. You know that addicts are manipulators and it goes 10fold for cgs. So all in all I think you are on the right track, you go girl!!!!!

[nomore 56]

Hi Gidge, I remember what it was like with the elephant in the room. Afraid to say something to avoid the hurt and the angry outbursts. Steaming inside, scared and alone. Your hb might know how bad the finances are but he will not think about for one second when it comes to gamble away what little he has. Reality doesn’t exist anymore and can be explained away and ignore. The worse it gets the bigger the need to forget everything and chasing the one big win needed to make everything right. And it will come for sure, sooner or later. The only thing you can do is to take care of yourself right now. Protect the money as good as you can, at least from now on. A lot of people do not understand that a cg cannot just quit on the spur of a moment. It is hard to since there is no substance involved. I still have trouble to understand the delusional state my hb was in for so long and that even a prison sentence he got for embezzlement did not do the trick. I just want to share with you what I told him when I had reached my point of no return. I told him that I will refuse to be dragged into that mess even for one more day. That I would not give him a single penny anymore and that he had to make a choice. Either get into treatment and work on his recovery or get away from me. That I was tired of the lies and the promises, all of which were just created to noodle more money out of me. That i was sorry it got to that point but that I was just so tired and worn out that no matter what he decided, I would not continue to live this nightmare. I felt really peaceful and calm inside even though I was financially dependent on him. I just couldn’t do it anymore. This issue with his license is a good excuse for him to not do anything, to not seek help, to not tell anyone. But at the end of the day what good does his license do him when he starts missing work or doesn’t to a good job anymore because he is occupied with his gambling? Cgs are sooo good playing with our minds and manipulating the hell out of us. Be strong and treat YOURSELF kindly!

[nomore 56]

Hi Gidge, you will find plenty of emotional support on this site to help you start your own recovery re. your hb’s gambling. I would like to address the more practical side of the addiction issue. It is so hard to make any decisions when being caught up in this mess and dragged down the slippery slope of gambling addiction. You said that you don’t have joined accounts, which is great to begin with. Make sure YOU pay all the necessary bills if your income is enough. Hide your check book, all your cards, whatever can be used to get money. Take his name off your cards and vice versa. Sign up for a credit monitoring service so you will be alerted should your hb make any moves behind your back. You can do this for both of you with his SSN. Get a PO box where he has no access. Don’t give him any money except small amounts for gas, food, etc. He has to give you each and every receipt, no matter how much it is. Try not to engage in arguments about his gambling, the addiction is making all kind of white noise to stay alive. It will rage at you, get angry and mean. It is not your hb talking, try to remember that. No matter what your family sends, cards, checks, cash, he cannot get a hold of anything of it. Check your credit report, his and yours. If you live in a state with community property, you will be responsible for any debt, even if you don’t know it exists. If he wants to go to the tournament, he will have to find a way to finance it himself. Don’t go with him to anything that has to do with gambling, no matter what it is. I’m not sure but don’t think that he gets into trouble for attending GA meetings or seeing a counselor. That would be very weird since he is in recovery from substance abuse. Doesn’t make any sense to me. Check if your state has a council on problem gambling. They have great resources online for groups, counselors, etc. For both, the cg and the family. The most important thing I learned during my 20+ yrs with my gambling hb is to not believe anything. Always check if it is the truth. No matter how. Don’t buy into the “keeping it secret/private” issue. Everyone your hb could get money from needs to know and be alerted. It is so much easier to keep a clear head when the finances are protected and you don’t have to worry about bills being paid and food on the table. The sooner he sees himself facing the consequences of his doing the sooner he might understand that there is no way out, other than forward into another kind of recovery! I wish you luck and stay strong!!!!!!

[nomore 56]

Velvet, your post hit the nail on the head! And Jenny, thx for mentioning the “Buts”! I would like to add an “If only”. My mantra for so many years. If only…my hb would see the light and quit gambling. I had not made so many wrong decisions. If only this and if only that. Then my life would have been great, peaceful, meaningful, insert the positive result here….The way I look at it today is that the “ifs” and “if onlys” were just a way for me to justify my stand still, my not acting when deep down inside I knew that I was my own worst enemy. But hindsight is always much better of course. IF I could turn back time, things would have panned out much differently. BUT that is not an option. The ” if he would only quit gambling” became true. It looks like this today: my hb takes care of his own money but gives me the majority of it so I feel safer today. He has made amends to his family as much as possible. He has built better relationships with his daughters by being truthful, reliable and responsible. He doesn’t make any promises that he can’t keep anymore. He listens and tries never to judge but to understand where others come from. I appreciate this change so much. BUT I honestly wonder IF our marriage would have turned out to be better had he not been the pretend person I met all those years ago. Maybe, just maybe I got what I thought I needed. Not the gambling of course but the person he was back then. Or rather pretended to be. Weird thinking, I know. However, after the attempts he made to start recovery, the years of relapse mode, after everything that happened and the nightmare we went through I would have never thought that he would make these incredible changes in almost all areas of his life and turn out to be the man he is today at the ripe old age of 61! I guess what I mean is that this transformation is possible, no matter how hopeless the situation might be. Yes, we are only friends today and there are many things that will never go away. A lot of damage was done and can’t be repaired. But at the end of the day IF a cg like he was since childhood can turn his life around, so can almost every cg.

[nomore 56]

Thank you both for your encouragement, Ell and Twilight. Since I have been looking for the what and why for a long time now, I have “taken apart” my life. The whole thing started really early. My parents were and still are very unemotional, no wonder, they grew up during the war in Germany. There was no expression of love ever, just survival was important in many ways for us. My mom told me that even though she tried, she could not get close to me. I started very early to refuse physical contact and there is no real reason for this. I was not abused in any way and my sister, who grew up in the same environment is a completely different person than I. I am aware of all the things that might explain my personality, big and small. But it never added up. I used to compare it with a severed spinal cord, no connection between my brain and my feelings. The thing is that I cannot even imagine how it would be to feel what others feel. I don’t grasp the concepts at all. That’s why I want to find out what is actually going on. I know my good sides very well and also my flaws and shortcomings and today my attitude is take it or leave it. I’m fine with either one. Everything is black or white, yes or no, no gray areas, no compromises. I love logic and common sense and cannot understand why others don’t see things this way, because it is so logical for me. It might very well be that it is just an unholy mix of genetics, upbringing and life experience. I just need to know. As for my marriage Twilight, yes, I married the man I thought he was. But there were warning signs I chose to ignore. Very early on I realized that my hb didn’t like to tell the truth about a lot of things. I didn’t know about the gambling back then but for the first time in my life I decided to ignore the gut feeling I had and my brain telling me that this is not good. I had a choice in the very beginning to just call it quits and didn’t do it. When I found out about the gambling, I continued to just live with the madness cz I had no clue how bad this addiction really is. There were plenty of times when I could have prevented myself from being dragged to the place I am in right now. And deep down inside I knew that there was something really bad coming my way. Can’t explain it, I just knew. One thing I did right was raising my daughter. She grew up to be a very delightful and good person. She graduated from college and has a good job. She knows that she can rely on me and that I will support her. She was the reason I developed tunnel vision and just did what I had to do. I am proud of myself that I did not give in or up and did what I could for her. As for the mistake, I am not a person who should be married in the first place. Took me a while to realize that I am better off living alone. I don’t really like someone in my personal space. Live and learn. I hope that the fog will lift should I be able to convince the doctors that nothing will get better unless I get the assessment out of the way.

[nomore 56]

Thank you San and Velvet for your kind words. I agree with you, Velvet, Valentine’s day is just another one of those days where we are supposed to engage in shopping sprees. It is a good example for me learning by observing what one is supposed to do I guess? Actually there are people that are wired to have few or no emotions. Or just certain ones. I have felt weird my whole life because I tried to be like all the other people, caring about others, family, friends and so on. I learned to say all the right words and do all the right things but always knew that I just played a role somehow. I have been called cold hearted many times and kept thinking something is wrong with me. Not anymore. This is who I am. I have never deliberately hurt anyone so it’s ok with me not be a loving, compassionate person. What I’m looking for right now is just an explanation. Whether it is the way I was raised in an unemotional, not very loving environment or a personality disorder of some kind will just satisfy my curiosity. I always ask for the “how” and “why” and need to understand everything intellectually. When I first learned about Asperger’s syndrom and worked with a boss who has a full-blown version of this, I felt like coming home. I have educated myself about this and it all fits. My mom even provided me with missing puzzle pieces about my early childhood. I don’t believe in self-diagnosis so I want to do a proper assessment. I will accept the outcome no matter what it is. Velvet, I do love my daughter and my dogs. To the best of my ability. But I often still feel emotionally very distant and I hurt for my child because she deserves better. But I have perfected my acting so well, that I can hide my being dead inside very well by now. And I’m ok with it. My practical approach to other non-cgs posts is the only logical one for me. I look at the posts in awe and wonder why someone would talk about loving the cg after all the hurt and pain he/she created and I cannot understand it. But I understand why I think this way and I always hope that practical stuff might help. I don’t think I ever loved my hb. I don’t know what it would feel like and my relationships were always based on other needs or whatever you want to call it. I talked to him about it and he understands me. What is left is my situation, the part that has nothing to do with people or feelings. Let’s face it, if my financial situation would be different among other things, I would be able to find some peace of mind and contentment. I don’t aim for happiness and I’m ok with that as well. The addiction has forced me to take a good look at myself and I no longer wonder what would have been if I only…..insert a variety of what I should have been or done right here….That’s a good thing. I hope this doctor will listen to me but the health care system here is very basic and pills are the answer for everything. I have to be prepared for a long battle because what I want and need is too expensive and meds are cheaper. Go figure…Have a great weekend

[nomore 56]

Hi Madge, I agree with Velvet re the abstinence not being enough. I dealt with my hb being in relapse mode for many years. He too was unreliable, showed no interest in anything or anybody but himself and had huge pity parties for the diva he had become. Everyone was out to get him, he was angry, jealous of every little bit of something good I treated myself or my daughter to and sometimes got downright nasty and hurt us in many ways, emotionally and verbally. I recommend the book “The relapse syndrom” by Gorski to you. Every word he wrote was something I experienced on a daily basis. It is a mandatory read for substance abuse counselors in training here and also used in many treatment programs. It might explain the state of mind your hb might be in at this point in time. It would be a good idea to have someone who could carefully check on your kids while you are gone without upsetting your hb too much. I learned the hard way that you cannot really rely on most addicts even when they are abstinent because they are the most selfish people on the planet. Could you possibly board your kitty at the vets to make sure it is properly taken care of? I don’t want to scare you, by no means but having gone through the motions for so many years I learned a lot of lessons I could live without to tell you the truth. It is great that you don’t intertwine your personal well being with his so much and are doing nice things for yourself and your kids! Way to go!!!!!!!!!!

[nomore 56]

Hi Kathryn, don’t know why I clicked on journal today and then clicked on your thread. Just random but your last post caught my attention. You said that you feel like you have no voice and I am very familiar with this feeling. I’m not a cg, my hb is and he was the one being passive aggressive before he started his true recovery. I, too, never really had a voice and it started way before I met my hb. Only when I was forced to deal with myself so to speak while my life was turned upside down by my cg’s horrible actions did I figure out what was really going on. The seeds of being not important, to not matter, to be without a voice and someone nobody really heard were planted in my childhood. At the end I was convinced, that this was just something I had to accept because I didn’t know any better. Long story but I wonder if you ever had a voice and if so, when it was silenced? What happened? Maybe it would be an idea for you to look into your family dynamics to start with? The family of origin plays a huge part in how we act and feel as adults without actually being aware of it. Weird as it sounds, even the order in which siblings are born is important. We develop certain roles depending on where we are in this order and it is fascinating how that influences our whole life. I had to read some great books for my college classes, “Lost in the shuffle” and “Family ties that bind” are two of them, don’t know the authors though. Just a thought, something that might interest you at this point in your life. I hope you have a great weekend!!! 🙂

[nomore 56]

Hi Jenny, your post made me cry. I have 3 cats (down from 5) and 3 dogs and all of them are seniors. My pets helped me make it through the darkest days when nobody else was there for me. They are my family and I love them so very much. They give so much and ask for so little in return. After my daughter went away to college and my hb left to go to therapy my animals, especially the dogs, were the only reason I got out of bed some days. I had to walk them, no matter how bad I felt or how terrible the weather was. What kept me going was the thought that nobody was there to take care of them and to love them if I wouldn’t be there anymore. My 2 older dogs have health problems now and I know that I am living on borrowed time with them. Each day is a gift. My heart goes out to you and yes, who cares about what the cg is doing and what kind of stunts the addiction pulls at a time like this. Just wanted you to know that my heart is aching for you and your 4legged friend. NM

[nomore 56]

I’m glad to hear that your hb is still gamble free. When I read your post I was reminded of the classes I took and the books I read during my training program. There was a large section on the topic of relapse and this is also an issue that treatment programs of all kinds cover one way or another. What you describe in your post is very similar to the behavior my hb engaged in when he was gamble free but not really in true recovery. I learned that a lot of addicts might never drink/use/gamble again but will remain in “relapse mode”. That does not mean that they will actually relapse, as weird as it sounds. There is a book that was a real eye opener for me. It is called “The relapse syndrome” by Terence T. Gorski. Maybe it would be a good idea for you to read it. It might help you to understand a little better what might be going on in your hb’s mind? Just a thought…

[nomore 56]

Hi James, I think that all F&Fs have had encounters with anxiety, some more, some less. It goes with the addiction. The lies, the uncertainty, the not knowing what the cg is doing, when and where. Everything you describe in your recent posts sounds like your wife is gambling. Missing work is a huge red flag. I just want to list some things you can do to get some kind of a picture re what is going on. Remove her name from all joint accounts and credit cards. No checks, no nothing. Check both your credit reports to see if she got any credit cards you know nothing about. Or payday loans, personal loans, anything like that. Make sure that YOU pay all the bills, each and everyone of them. You might want to sign up for a credit monitoring service so that you know if something is going on behind your back. She should provide receipts for everything she buys with her debit card. Everything you are going through sounds so terribly familiar to me. I was completely oblivious to what my hb did to get his hands on money and I wish someone had told me what to do to protect myself. I live in a community property state and ended up filing for bankruptcy for debts I knew nothing about. You guys are financially secure at this time but make no mistake, the money has no face and no name on it and goes faster than you can count it. My hb gambled away about 250 K in 18 months. Not to mention the house, the cars and everything in between. I DO NOT want to scare you but personally I think that it provides some peace of mind to know that your money is protected and there can be no terrible surprises for you. The addiction caused me to have huge problems at work as well. I was never able to concentrate, left early, came in late, constantly worried and on the phone etc. Eventually it ruined everything for me. I just want to share my experience with me because it does not have to come to this for you. There is still time to turn the table. Your wife will get angry if you take control of the money because the addiction is furious with you for trying to take away its’ resources. That is white noise, try not to listen to it. Your baby deserves a functional parent and at this time this seems to be you more than your wife. Please don’t let me scare you, that is not my intention. I have been down this road for 25 years before my hb finally turned his life around in 2009. I would hate to see anyone else having to go through all the pain and the suffering. Take good care of yourself! 🙂

[nomore 56]

Hi Adele, the moon sure was pretty but I’m glad it’s over. I react really badly to it every month and when it is one of those special moons, white, orange, hanging low, you name it, it gets lots worse. Restless nights, bad dreams, the whole 9 yards. Anyways, it is upsetting that gambling addiction is still so underestimated and undertreated when it affects so many people and more and more each day. I think it is a great idea to see the therapist separately, you can say things you might not want to say in front of your hb and vice versa. As long as you both are in motion with the issue and get something positive out of the sessions, it is all for the better. Anything will help. On a side note, here is something interesting re the fact that gambling is still the “silent disease” and lots of people don’t even believe it exists. I watch this Dr. Phil character a lot cz I’m interested in what he is doing and how and so on. Have been tuning into his shows for some yrs now and in all this time, he has NEVER addressed gambling. To the contrary, he seems to avoid the topic with a vengeance. Whenever it is brought up, he ignores it and changes the subject. Makes me want to challenge him, cz he would be the one person to reach millions of people and raise awareness. Hm, tempting….LOL
Keep going, nothing can stop you but yourself!

[nomore 56]

Hi Adele, I thought about replying to you long and hard. Your post reminded me on the mess on my own plate of noodles. I agree with San that it would help both of you to become separate or rather to become single individuals (not as in single per se). Just like with you and your hb, we too had a lot of issues to work out other than the gambling. The addiction of course was the tip of the iceberg and what led to it caused a lot of other problems in return. It was all a great big nasty enmeshment of this and that. To untangle the web will probably take a lot of work and time for both of you. Just from my own experience I am wondering, if it will do you guys a lot of good to jump right into the middle of the pasta dish. It seems like your hb has a lot of unresolved issues besides the gambling and maybe, just maybe it would be a good idea for him to get some gambling specific counseling in addition to your marriage therapy. I can only speak from my own experience but when my hb went to the last inpatient treatment program he was finally after all those years able to uncover what actually “made” him need the addiction as a crutch to deal with his past. It is all intertwined and one thing led to another. If there would have ever been a chance to keep our marriage alive, it would have been AFTER he completed the program and started to really work on his recovery. Before that, it would have been all smoke and mirrors. As long as the addiction was alive and well, he would have agreed with everything a counselor would have said or suggested. He would have never addressed what really caused his pain all those years, mostly because he wasn’t really aware of it and not ready to deal with it in any way. Again, that is just my opinion. I also believe firmly that it takes a counselor who is familiar with gambling addiction to uncover the real truth, so to speak. Maybe like removing the sauce before the spaghettis can be untangled? As long as you both feel comfortable with the counselor right now and feel like you are making progress, it is a start. I learned in my training that addiction treatment comes first because an addict does have the capacity to see things clearly before starting recovery. That is the reason why a mental health evaluation oftentimes has to wait until the addiction is addressed, especially when it comes to certain mood disorders. I’m rambling here so I better stop now. LOL. Anywho, I wish you luck, you are tough and at the very least the counseling will help you along on your road to your own recovery!! Happy full moon today….

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