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Hi Jordan,
my daughter was 14 when her dad went to prison for a crime he had committed to finance his gambling. Needless to day that it was a huge shock for her. We had not told her about the gambling at all but she had witnessed almost everything else related to it for years. The arguments, the anger, the periods of silence and towards the end my terrible fear of what was going to happen to us. Not to mention the countless occasions when her dad promised to do something with her/us and then didn’t show up. My panic when he didn’t come home and I couldn’t reach him. You name it, she witnessed it. When I told her about the prison sentence I had to tall her the reason. Her reaction was that she told me she wished we or at least I had told her about what was going on. I don’t know your son, some kids are “older” than their age, some are not. I don’t know how much he saw, heard and or/experienced. And I would never advise you what to do. Your wife probably tries to protect him and might also feel some guilt deep down inside, or some shame, Nobody knows but her.
From your posts it sounds like you live in the US. Most states have a council on problem gambling, might have a slightly different name in some. These councils are a great resource for cgs and the families. The have lists of groups and counselors certified to treat cgs and families in your area. From my own experience I can say that I wished all this would have been available when the sunshine hit the fan here. It would have helped my daughter and myself a great deal. Maybe you could find someone who can help you with the situation re your son. Here in WA the topic of cg was integrated into the social studies curriculum, starting in JH. It is age appropriate and part of the topic of substance abuse etc. Imho a therapist who is trained in treatment of cg might be able to help you. Just an idea.Hi Rose, I love Velvet’s image of the beast in the corner. It is so true imhop. I just want to add something re how a cg in recovery sees him/herself when the addiction was in charge. My hb told me that gambled when he felt overwhelmed with a situation and told himself, that the whole world was against him. Nobody cared, he felt deprived, misunderstood, you name it. So then the addiction whispered in his ear that he deserved a little something to treat himself. This went on even after he served a prison term for embezzlement. He was upset that nobody supported him, turned their back on him and keeping on gambling was all he had left. Today he tells me that he never felt appreciated by anyone, (which wasn’t true) and used his addiction to punish everybody he thought had deserted him. So basically he believed that his feelings of being unworthy did not come from within but were created solely by the behavior of family and friends. Does that even make sense I wonder?? But I cannot describe it any other way.
The addiction thrives on secrecy. It needs to be hidden and if only to ensure some possible future resources for money. That was the case at least for my hb. Hang in there, there is life after gambling.Hi again Anna,
this is a real problem here in the states at least. Everyone has mood swings and tah dah, you must be bipolar. And take medications. My hb was prescribed said pills after he relapsed the last time. The VA psych Dr. put him on bipolar meds. After a conversation of less than an hour. No assessment, nothing. Ignoring the facts that he has an autoimmune disease that damages his liver. I call that irresponsible. Of course people who really suffer from any mental health conditions need appropriate help. But many don’t need it really. And pills are cheaper than a lengthy therapy. Been there, done that, got the tshirt :).
A lot of drs also are not aware of the correlation between certain psychotropic meds and human behavior. The dopamine issue is fairly new and they are just at the beginning. Being from Europe, I do not believe in the culture of giving chemicals to just everyone, kids or adults, who don’t fit the perfect mold and are not streamlined. JMHO of course. There a lot of certified counselors for cg and other addictions in this country who are oblivious to a lot of very important facts.
And it turned out that my hb is not bipolar. It was the addiction and nothing else. Addictions of all kinds, especially cg are really good at mimicking mental health problems. It would be interesting to see if your bf ever gets the urge to gamble again without taking meds.Hi Anna,
there might be some truth to your observation. Now this is just something that is starting to emerge as part of the physiological issues involved in cg. some researchers here in the US found that Parkinson’s patients who are treated with a medication that increases the Dopamine level in the brain developed a gambling addiction that vanished once they were taken off the meds. There is no real proof so far but they might be on to something. Dopamine plays a role in cg, at least that is what some of the psych experts believe. Every person, every condition is different so who can tell what is going on. But I agree with you, there is a pill for everything in this country and people love to take them without paying enough attention to the side effects. Or knowing enough about it of course. I’m very happy for you two that in your bf’s case it worked out!!!!!Velvet’s comment made me want to edit my statement that everyone “knows” what’s going on with your wife. I meant that in general terms re the anger, the protests, the lies and every other tool the addiction is using, that is what is familiar to most of us. I hope this will be more correct.
Hi dcor, I was wondering how you are doing. No, you are not complaining. What is going on with your wife is all too familiar for everyone who deals with a cg. Her addiction is very upset with you right now because you are threatening it by not believing the lies anymore. If you are on to it, it will be more difficult for the beast to frolic undisturbed. What you are saying is as much white noise to her than her angry accusations re not trusting her are to you. Arguments don’t do a thing for you. Neither does trying to keep tabs on her. Addicts live in their own world and believe what they are saying. Try to take care of YOU, pay the bills to make sure YOU are safe from her actions. My hb was outraged that I didn’t trust him and we argued all the time. At the end this made him mad and gave him reason to go and gamble. “If she doesn’t trust me I might as well do what she thinks I’m doing anyways.” I ended up just shrugging my shoulders and told him that I could not and would not trust a word he was saying unless he proved otherwise. I also told him at the end that the only thing I wanted from him was to show me enough respect to not expect me to believe what he was trying to sell me. I had to leave the room to end the conversation right then and there. Sometimes refusing to take part in this charade is the only thing that’s left. Indifference did the trick for me. No matter how furious I was, I just didn’t want to waste my time anymore. If her car has 1 or 4 flat tires she will find a way to either get help or contact you. And frankly, what she is willing to accept from you makes not one bit of a difference to either one of you. The only thing she needs to accept is that she is a cg and is hurting the both of you until she is willing to seek some kind of help. Your posts bring up a lot of memories for me so that’s why I write lengthy replies :}
Hi Erin, your story is very familiar to me in many aspects. In 2003 my hb was convicted of embezzlement (83K) and sentence to a year in prison because he worked for the fed. gov. and stole the money from his workplace. He also has to pay restitution which he cannot do in his lifetime, he is 62 and disabled. The day the sentence was announced, I considered my marriage over. We are still married on paper for various reasons but do not live together. Gamblers are pathological liars, no doubt about it. But my hb, just as yours kept on lying about lots of things. He had not been gambling for 11 years prior to that huge relapse but lying was a daily thing for him. He avoided anything he found unpleasant, anything that he knew would bother me. When he knew I would not agree with something, he did it anyway and lied about it. After being released from prison, he relapsed right away and then several more times until I called it quits on him and told him he had to move out of my house (he lived on my couch for 4 years). He completed a 120 day inpatient treatment program and has been in recovery every since. What he learned in tx was an eye opener. Lying was his way of coping with life as a child with an extremely abusive mother and several stepfathers. His siblings did the same. He now believes that this was the seed his cg grew from, at least partially.
Do you know for sure that your hb is not gambling? Going to GA and counseling could just be lip service. Do you have any indication that he is actually working? It sounds like you support your family by yourself? To me, something doesn’t add up. Just mho here of course. If you are the only bread winner AND pay HIS restitution, would it not be better to take this money and pay a baby sitter for your kids? I’m an outsider here and just look at the naked facts so please don’t take offense. At the end of the day, his actions put him in the position he is in and bailing him out of the consequences by paying the restitution makes things very easy for him. Not contributing to the family expenses sounds outrageous to me. But maybe I’m too harsh because my take on the hole my hb dug for himself was to just tell him to go and take care of it and so I handed it over to him. His choice, his consequences, his altogether. Today, I support his recovery as good as I can and am willing to. Should he relapse again, he is on his own. His retirement is garnished every month for the restitution payment and he has to live with it. And ironically this is the reason I could not buy my own place which is the only thing I have left to wish for. At the end of the day, the choices he made will affect me directly forever.
Sorry for the long post, I just wanted you to know that you are not the only one dealing with these issues. What is important really is YOU and your kids. Take care of yourself and the children how YOU think is best. I wish you strength and peace of mind. The burden is just too much for just one pair of shoulders.Hi dcor, I feel for you. This is so hard and exhausting. Your wife is in full denial, she refuses to see what is going on, explains it away and will ultimately result to blaming everyone but herself. That’s addiction talk. Whatever she says is just white noise and aimed to deflect from the gambling. Imho it is important for you right now to protect YOURSELF and the kids. If you have not done so, remove her from all your accounts and credit cards. Hide money and your cards from her as she will ultimately start to look elsewhere once her own funds run dry. Re her cards, you can find info about your responsibilities on the internet. You can also find your state’s Gambling Council, they will probably know something about your legal status. Personally I would see a lawyer, the first consultation is usually free. Then you know where you stand. A cg cannot be trusted with anything so you don’t have to feel bad about going behind her back. If you can survive on your income, pay the bills and your credit cards only. Stay calm if you can not matter how much ranting and raving the addiction produces. I would offer her support if and when she is willing to address her gambling. Do not give her any money, no matter what reason she comes up with. Sure thing, the people at the shop are her friends. She spends a lot of money there. I am sure they know what is going on. As for me, I felt a lot better once I figured out the details and made sure my hb could not touch any funds other than his own. This is very difficult and involves a lot of hard, painful work. Is there anyone you can talk to? Maybe a GamAnon group in your area? It helps to talk to people who know what your are going through. And they often have a lot of very helpful advice also.
Hi dcor, I hear you about being stretched thin. To the point of breaking I guess? First thing I would do is get a credit report for the both of you. You can do hers if you have her social. And sign up for a monitoring service. They will alert you any time she applies for a loan, a new card or cash advances. Once you have info about the whole “damage” she has done so far, you might want to sit her down without being angry or emotional, just trying to be matter of fact. The addiction will not want to listen and get really upset but you should not let that stop you. It’s important that you don’t get angry and let her know that you want to support her but can only do so if she is willing as far as the finances are concerned. What happens if she continues to gamble away her paycheck? Will you be in danger of losing your home, be without power or anything? My husband only had moments of enlightenment when I showed him the numbers. Not even in his worst days was he able to deny the naked facts. It is exhausting, I know. Do you have access to her account? That way you could at least check what is going on. Do not threaten her with anything you are not prepared to go through with. The addiction will just happily ignore you and keep on moving. Can you find a GamAnon group in your area? It helps to talk to people who are in the same boat. RE the finances in your state: maybe you can find out if you are able to inform her credit card companies that you are not willing to back her debt. I should have done that! I filed bankruptcy for debts I didn’t owe and knew nothing about. As a last effort, you could think about filing for a legal separation. Just for the time being. You don’t have to actually leave, just put the document in a drawer just in case. That way, you can protect yourself. Learned my lessons the hard way and looking back I still don’t know how I survived it all. But I did and so can you!!!!
Hi Berber, two yrs is a great accomplishment. However, it sounds like he is white-knuckling it right now, kinda like a dry drunk. Not gambling but still in gambling mode so to speak? I don’t know if you know the book “The relapse syndrome” by Terrence Gorski and maybe I mentioned it before. This helped me tremendously to understand why my hb in all the years he didn’t gamble (11 after the first treatment and about 4 after the second) was still hard to deal with on a daily basis for several reasons. It all sounds to darn familiar to me.
Hi Dcor, since you are living in the US, here are some things you might want to do to protect yourself and your family financially. If you live in a community property state, you are responsible for the debt your wife accumulates whether you know about it or not. Pull both your credit reports to check if there are any loans or credit cards you do not know about. Sign up for credit monitoring so you are notified if your wife applies for something behind your back. Make sure YOU are paying all the bills. She might get upset but that is the addiction talking. Best case scenario would be for her to hand over all her cards to you and give you access to her account so you can monitor what is going on. Do not give her any money for anything and don’t pay any debts for her. Your state should have a council for problem gambling, you can find it on the internet. They are an excellent recourse for all kind of info. GA and GamAnon groups in your area, treatment providers etc. The more you know about this addiction the stronger your position. Had I known all this, I would have not have my life destroyed by my hb’s addiction to the extent it ended up to be. Right now, you and your kids are all that matters, sad as it is.
Hi Ivy, your last post reminded me of the final countdown in my own journey on the slippery slope of dealing with my hb’s addiction. I, too, hid his relapses from the few people who knew that he is a cg. In my case, it was part embarrassment and part not wanting to hear “we told you it would not work out”. Looking back at it, I have to agree with Velvet. It is not your fault that he relapsed and the addiction loves secrecy. You might want to have a discussion with yourself. Try to find out, what it is you want and how far you are willing to go with this. Where is your point of no return? If you decide to leave, do you have a plan in place? IMHO relapse is different from the first encounter with the addiction. At least it was for me. I dealt with his gambling, his non-gambling in constant relapse mode and the last catastrophic relapse for over 20 yrs until there was nothing left of me. Nothing left of anything but chaos and insanity. I still remember the day when I told myself that it is enough. No matter what the consequences would be, I was not willing to play the charade one more day. So I sat him down and told him what my conditions were. He just knew I was serious for once. Went to inpatient treatment and is now in a true recovery for over 5 yrs. We are separated but it is all so much better now. Velvet said that HE should be the one to take action and I agree with that as well. How much support are you willing to give and how long? I also can’t help but think that he might ask for your support to put the ball partly in your court. So you think that you can actually do something to make him quit again. Kind of a silken chain to tie you to him just a bit longer. I might be wrong but learned to not trust anything my cg said. He lied when his lips were moving. I hope that this is not the case for you and hope you find a solution that gives you peace of mind because right now, YOU is all that matters.
Hi Hopeful, I like your username, you have every reason to be hopeful! I think you are on the right path having made the decision to distance yourself from the addiction, especially for the kids. I wish I had done the same thing when I found out about my hb gambling. I decided that my marriage was over when he was convicted of embezzlement and sentenced to a yr in prison. Unfortunately we were not able to separate physically because of our financial situation. He, too, acted like it was all my fault, that I was the cruel one for not supporting him, blah, blah, blah. The addiction needs a safe place to run its course undisturbed. A place to come home to, a bed to sleep in, food, laundry done etc. Otherwise the person in its grip is inconvenienced. Let’s not change anything, let’s just pretend we can continue life as usual. Let’s make some promises, let’s mouth some lies and for heaven’s sake, no changes. That’s just the way I see it looking back now. I also think that maybe your hb got a first glimpse now of what the addiction is doing to him. Very uncomfortable indeed. So he tries everything he can to restore his comfort zone. Some sort of panic might set in and the fear that he has to face the ugly truth. If he can get u back, there is hope that he can have both, his family and his addiction. I still remember the ugly emails and phone calls I got at work. The feeling of anxiety and fear because he always kept me on the leash by threatening to take away the money I needed to survive with our daughter. And other things I could not risk, like my health insurance. Bad contact was better than no contact. Stay strong, block every number in the book and if you have to, limit contact to a divorce lawyer. Things will get better with time. When you have reached a point where you have peace of mind and can think more clearly, you will be able to withstand his “attacks” more confidently. Until then, everything that he says is just white noise. And as long as he makes no attempt to accept and fight his addiction, stay away. Anywho, just my point of view from where I stand now after decades of letting my life be destroyed piece by piece.
Thx for your reply. When I made the decision to free myself of the addiction, I did so because I had reached rock bottom many times over. At that point I honestly believe that one of us would have ended up dead, had I not drawn the line. I tried not to look back and just hope for the best. My hb started his true recovery and we became friends out of necessity. It worked for us. Unfortunately the past stuck to us like gum on a shoe because my hb was now a convicted felon with a huge restitution to pay. Moving on or forward is not an option because of that, or rather not the way we wanted to. So after yrs of struggling, disappointments and crushed hopes we finally thought we had found a solution. Now this is out of reach as well even if the sx goes well. I won’t go into that, too complicated. Should I be on my own, there is not much money available. And no, there are not military benefits I can apply for as the wife of a medically retired hb. I am totally aware that I am a complicated, difficult, odd, weird, whatever you want to call it, person. I have given up trying to be someone I am not just because others want me to be like them and see the world through their eyes. The bottom line for me is, that if my life becomes just survival, I am not too interested anymore. That is how I grew up and that is what I NEVER wanted for myself. I do come from a completely different culture and some things here just don’t do it for me. Doesn’t matter. What I meant was that if I had had all the info and insight re. gambling addiction back when I first found out about it, I would have run. It was never my decision to live with it for as long as I did. When my hb relapsed after 11 yrs of not gambling, I had ended up here with no way out. In many ways. I had no choice but to hang in there until the day I thought I could finally kick him out. Which I did. Had we still lived back home, I still couldn’t have made him leave because of the finances. Trust me, I played it through in my head over and over again. Anywho, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with me, I really appreciate it.
Hi James, I think you came a long way in a very short time and it looks like you are on the right path to create some much needed peace and stability for yourself and your little daughter. Addiction is a family disease and affects everyone. The addict is just the central figure in this and sometimes families have a hard time to understand and accept what is really going on with their loved one. It is so much easier to make excuses, to justify, to rationalize and most of all, find someone to blame instead of looking the ugly truth in the face. When I met my hb 31 yrs ago, he was already a cg. His family knew, I did not. So they could not blame me for his gambling really. But what they DID blame me for was his need for money. He always spent more than we had without telling me since we had separate accounts and never really merged our finances. I had no clue what was going on. Shortly before he went to prison for embezzlement, his sister gave him over 20 K to supposedly pay off a credit card. Never happened of course. Months later I got a nasty phone call from her, telling me that she had given him her savings and only for “my f…..g car and my f…g house” because he wanted to make sure “I get to keep it”. How is that for blaming? They ranted and raved about something they had done, not I. Their decision. And I never asked for Disney vacation or new cars, didn’t really care for all of it. The car was paid off, he borrowed against it. The house was in foreclosure but it was my fault that THEY kept enabling him. So don’t listen to anyone, just to your heart, your gut and your mind. Do what is right for you and your little girl. And btw, the necklace would have ended up in the pawn shop. Next thing you know someone might tell you that she gambled because the weather was bad that day. Hard to blame anyone for that though….I think you are doing a really good job and your daughter is very lucky to have her as a dad 🙂