[lily]

Hi Logic,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you properly. My week has been busy Logic, thanks for asking. I have been out riding with my sister and had a visit from my partner. My son has autism and I home educate plus I have been trying to pick up with my business again recently, so never a dull moment!

It is good to hear that there has been some sort of movement from your CG any kind of admittance of the problem has to be a step in the right direction doesn’t it. It sounds as if you handled the situation well and your different approach caused a different reaction, don’t be surprised if goes back into his shell again though,

I am glad you have your holiday to look forward to, what ever happens try not to let worry or events spoil that, stay focused on you and your needs. Time away can give you time and space to process things clearly and you may come back with a fresh perspective.

Like me you live separately from your partner and that affords a good safety net for you to protect yourself from any financial impact, however hard it is to see him struggle it is all down to him now. You have been very honest with him about his gambling and allowed him space to open up, now it really is up to him to seek help from here. By staying strong in yourself, taking time out when you need it, addressing your own needs and working on yourself as you have been the road through for you will become clearer and things will begin dropping into place.

Be kind to you, one day at a time, Lily x

[lily]

Hi Logic, I have been busy with my partner and my sister the last couple of days but didn’t want you to think I was ignoring you. I will write a full reply as soon as I can. In the meantime I know I have read your post and I am thinking of you. Lily x

[lily]

Hi Logic,
Please stop blaming yourself, there is way to convince a gambler in denial to seek help, even a gambler not in denial takes a lot to actually get help often, the addiction fights the idea to the end. You have gone NOTHING wrong.

If he asks you to take his card though my advice would be to take it there and then, that is a cry for help and needs to be responded to. This gives a glimmer of hope that he is aware of his problem on some level.

For now be content that you have done all you can and your words may filter through at some point, when HE is ready, that could be tomorrow, next week, next year, in 10 years or sadly never but that is up to him now.

My advice would be stop chasing him. You could send him a text saying your are happy to have his card if he still wants you to have it. Other than that keep it simple if you do contact him, a simple I love you or can’t reach you but thinking of you etc. It’s his money he is losing, its his problem he is creating he has to realise that himself and you need to give him the space to do that however hard that is.

Same old same old, look after you, do things you enjoy, try not to worry about it as it won’t make any difference and do not bail him out no matter what the reason he gives for needing money.

Be strong for you, don’t give yourself away to the addiction as he has. My thoughts are with you. Lily x

[lily]

Hi Jane it was good to meet you in the group tonight. I thought I would take a look at your thread and I can see things have been very difficult for you. I hope you are finding time to care for yourself as well as your son.

I see Velvet has written you a great reply and I have to confess I find it much more difficult to give advice to parents as I know it is a completely different situation to when a partner is a CG but I wanted to show you my support.

It sounds like you have been working hard not to enable your son and it must be so hard when he won’t talk. I really hope that the tips velvet has given you will eventually help break the walls put up by the addiction down.

Do keep posting, you will find this a great place for support and understanding as I have I am sure.

Keep on keeping on and taking care of you and never give up hope, many do find a way out of this awful addiction. Lily x

[lily]

Btw I will be in the F&F group tonight if you want to talk some more. 8pm until 9pm. Lily x

[lily]

Hi Selina,
It sounds like you are a bright woman who is already aware of some of the issues associated with gambling addiction and it must be such a worry for you especially after your fathers problems. It’s great your dad is in recovery now, he could be a good person to open up to, it is a terrible trap when you start to cover the tracts for someone elses addiction whatever the reason.

It sounds like your bf is deep in denial and I am afraid that gambling addiction is generally progress so losses and the problems associated with it tend to get greater the longer it goes on. The good thing is you have spotted the signs comparatively early on which doesn’t always happen as it is an hidden addiction which isn’t always easy to spot.

A few steps you can take are:

Not lend him money, give him access to money or bail him out with lifts etc because he has no money.

Not give him lifts to or socialize in gambling activities. Tell him why if he asks but keep it calm and understated ie ‘I am not going to take you as I care about you and am worried about your gambling.

There are many online questionnaires to test if you have a problem, you could suggest he does one (even if he thinks he is doing it to prove you wrong).

Try to keep calm and not get personal if you are talking about the problem, shouting, accusing, name calling, and ultimatums generally don’t work. Fostering an atmosphere of care and trust will be more likely to help him open up when/if he is ready to.

Tell someone of your concerns, don’t be alone with this.

Do you have a close relationship with his mother? Has she voiced concerns? I wouldn’t suggest going too her behind his back and telling her straight but you could open a dialogue perhaps where maybe she would talk to you?

Do things together that are fun for him but don’t include gambling, spending time together having fun may help him step outside his gambling bubble for a bit.

Learn about gambling addiction and continue to seek help as you are doing now.

Most of all take care of you, try not to worry all the time about him, take time out to spend with your friends.

These are just some lose suggestions, I posted a list of tips on the forum I found on another site the other day which also has some good suggestions, the post is called ‘some useful tips for friends and family’.

Keep posting and let us know how you are getting on, there is always someone here to listen. Lily x

[lily]

Hi Logic,
Its hard to hear you berating yourself, being in a relationship with a CG particularly one in denial is next to impossible because you don’t ever truly relate, your relationship and his is with the addiction not each other.

I came to this forum to find out how to help my CG, I was desperate, he had put his life in danger and was receiving death threats, I HAD to help him. Imagine my annoyance when I didn’t get the response I wanted!! I was expecting to either be told to get out while I could or a magic formula for getting him ‘cured’, instead I got told to take care of myself. Frankly I was furious, what were these people going on about? I shouted at my computer, I wrote more posts about yeah, yeah I’m doing that but what about HIM but to no avail it all came back to me taking care of myself, luckily for me Velvet and other contributors were very patient. When i started listening and decided on an ultimatum they warned me not to make it if I couldn’t carry it through. When the ultimatum ultimately failed (as no doubt everyone else expected) I knew to carry it through, I stuck to my word. I felt I had lost my soulmate and my best friend it was only later I realised that I had already lost him to gambling.

By the time I finally ended it we had lost respect for each other, i worried constantly and felt resentful, his mind twisted by the gambling was resentful of me not believing in his recovery. Had we stayed together I am fairly sure we would of continued an unhealthy relationship and both ended up stuck in a cycle of him gambling, tearful apologies, attempts at recovery and so on spiraling down until we had nothing and I was as far in trouble as he was and all love was gone.

Instead I went away and worked on myself, kept busy, poured time into my son, improved the relationships I had with friends and family, started a business doing what I loved. I never expected to see him again but I understood what had happened was for the best for us both. From time to time there were emails telling me he he had completed treatment, he had a job, he was working on it although there had been many slips. My partners gambling is deep rooted, the money he has lost is more than many people have seen in a lifetime, gambling addiction is progressive so the longer it goes on the worse it gets so treatment and recovery has been a long road and it is still early days yet.

7 years on he was come a long way, I have come a long way, despite feeling we would never be back together and accepting that or maybe because we did, here we are in a healthy two way relationship, taking each day as it comes and being open and honest. We are very much together but we also have our separate lives, homes and finances which removes the anxiety and has reinstated the respect.

My point is while you are not putting yourself first nothing can change for the better. Once a family member or partner has learnt to self care though things can move forward for them and some times this also turns out to be the best thing for the CG too. I am not saying that things work out how you wish now or even as you expect but things have a way of falling into place for YOU and your life will be very different.

You are right to suspect things are not as he is telling you, they well be worse than you suspect they are, this is my experience. You are doing the right thing protecting yourself financially and by not moving in with him and you have been very courageous working on yourself by doing the counseling, protecting yourself emotionally however is more difficult and some times takes some hard choices as I think you are realising.

Your holiday should give you a good opportunity to think things over and work out what is best for you.

Take care, Lily x

[lily]

Hi again BL,
Trust doesn’t mean giving him your passwords, not giving him your passwords or pin numbers is protecting him and not supporting him not to relapse. Do you have control of the finances at the moment, again this is not about lack of trust it is about supporting him in his recovery as one gambler on the forum put it (more or less) ‘handing over your finances is not about relinquishing control its about taking back control of your life from gambling addiction’.

It sounds like you are both changing and growing and working on yourselves which is great. Trust takes time to return on both sides, open communication on both sides will help with this. Your husband is not cured (there is no cure), he is in recovery so it makes sense for you to be mindful (rather than suspicious) of this and take all the steps necessary to take care of yourself and your children and the will also support his recovery.

The love and commitment you have for each other is apparent in your post and there is no reason why you can’t do this if you work together. Lily x

[lily]

Hi Logic,
It took me so long to understand what it really meant to care for me and put myself first, the last 8 years to be exact! I started in my time here but it took the other 7 for it all to sink in and for me to really care for myself enough to really know what that meant and tbh I am still working on fully being able to let go of taking responsibility for others behaviors and emotions.

At the end of your post you say;

‘stresses of my holiday and 2 weeks away are keeping in *(did you mean kicking in?), especially as it overlaps with CGs next focus…Aintree.’

Can I ask you if reading that back sounds like you are caring for yourself? How about ‘I am really looking to my holiday and having a break with my friends, time to relax and think about the best way to move forward with my life, thing have been so hard lately and I need/deserve a break.’ Do you see what I mean. Your focus is not on the best move for you, what you want or need from a relationship, your work or enjoying the holiday you have worked for, they are on the next racing fixture and how that will affect your CG.

Do you think you worrying about the next big fixture will change whether your partner gambles or not? Do you think it will make any difference whether you are there watching it and his gambling unfold as you did for Cheltenham make any difference to the outcome?

I can tell you with almost 100% certainty it will not, the only thing that will change any of that is him and why would he? He lives in a house of gamblers, he has money available to gamble, he has a consoling arm around him and a supportive relationship to return to when he is burnt out and even someone to buy him a drink and care about his child.

It takes two to be codependent so it is not your codependency it is a codependent relationship, but it only takes one person to change the script.

I hope you understand what I am trying to say and that it doesn’t sound to harsh, it isn’t meant to be, it comes from a place of genuine care and concern for someone I see a lot of younger myself in. Lily x

[lily]

Hi BL,
It can be good to be busy but it is still important to take time for you when you can, ‘me’ time is still very important even if its just 15 min in the bath or sitting in the garden, it gives you time for a breath and helps keep you on an even keel. Hard when you have a family though I know,

Unfortunately when someone has been a CG for a while lying become habitual and often even in early recovery a CG will lie about things even when there is absolutely no necessity for it. Unlearning this habit an important aspect for recovery as open and honest communication is in my view an essential tool to long term success. In order to foster an safe environment for this for you both it is vital you can trust each other to not only tell the truth but also to listen without going into a huge row, Of course you have every right to feel angry but I have found it i more helpful to discuss the feelings the issues are bringing up than to ‘go off; on one where possible.

Because for many years your husband has relied on lying to support his addiction it may take a while to break the cycle and realise there is no need to lie any longer. With the help of his counselor he will hopefully become more self aware and start to catch himself before he tells a ‘little’ lie which in term will help him feel more connected to the people around him.

Open discussion and having things out in the open and even constructive arguments is better than hidden resentment and secrets but it is all about learning a different way to relate which is a huge learning curve for both parties.

Keep taking care of you and taking one day at a time, Lily x

[lily]

Hi Logic,
It was good to read your update, I have been wondering how the weekend went for you. It sounds like a stressful build up to it.

I have read with interest your regular referrals to codependency and TBH it is something I have only had a surface understanding of so I have been doing a bit more research into it. Turns out I am a prime candidate for it and indeed reading the sign and symptoms have been in codependent relationships for most of my life. This in turn made me realise that the biggest thing to change in my current relationship was me! Obviously my partners addiction therapy process also gave him the tool to work through his own issues and root of his gambling which also played its part but fundamentally seeing things through different eyes changes everything regardless of your partners path. Things can not remain the same when one player or more player in the story has changed their role. It is the same with you and your partner. You have no control or power to change him and neither is it right for you to try, its up to him, he has to do it for himself but you can change how you relate to yourself and that in turn changes how things effect you.

I am glad the weekend went ok, but perhaps it would of been more enjoyable for you to have a little time out to spend with your family and without the worry of whether he would show to take you? I am not sure I would want to spend a weekend with someone who told me I made them feel like scum and if you really did make him feel that way I am not sure why he would want to spend it with you either, sound like manipulation on his part to me, we are each responsible for our own feelings after all.

I like your plan of going with whats right for you and if that is being closer to work and family then go for it. Only by doing what is right for you will things ever change and change is what is needed here. If he is unable or unwilling to change his attitude towards his gambling then it is up to you to take that step forward, it may leave him behind or it may give him the space to look at his own issues without the emotional buffer of you being always available to him but your priority should always be you.

You talk a lot about what he is going through but don’t you owe it to yourself to reduce the worry and anxiety in your own life by allowing yourself the right environment to grow?

I think you are being very brave and trying hard to look at the situation objectively. It is not hard to have your happiness dictated to by someone else’s unaddressed addiction, its impossible, so one way or another you have to find a way to unravel yourself from it emotionally and thing will become easier for you. This could mean taking a step back and protecting yourself more or leaving the situation completely, that is something only you can decided.

Please remember there are no rights or wrongs only what best takes care of you. Lily x

[lily]

Hi Logic,
It’s good to hear you are taking care of you. I hope you have a lovely weekend and all goes smoothly with getting to your Mum’s house.

‘See’ you when you get back and don’t hesitate to post if anything changes or you are worried in the meantime. There is always someone hear to listen, this forum was a godsend for me when I needed it and always happy to support others if I can now things have moved on for me., just glad it has been of some use to you! Enjoy your time away, Lily x

[lily]

Hi Logic,
I only say make your own way because he may let you down or there maybe stresses etc associated with him giving a lift while in fall blown gambling mode. It helps reduce stress if you now your plans aren’t reliant on a cg at these times.

You are in a very difficult and emotionally draining situation so be extra kind to yourself. Tomorrow is another day, things change all the time, the only thing for certain is if you keep growing and changing things will look very different to you in a years time. Its hard to see the wood for the trees when you are up to your neck in worry about someone elses gambling. Step back, breath, move forward. Lily x

[lily]

Hi Logic,
In his current situation/mindset your part worst case scenario, he gambles everything or maybe more than everything (ie money he doesn’t have). He gets into financial problem (he likely already in some), its a downward spiral eventually he hits rock bottom and starts to really feel the effects of the gambling perhaps he admits he has a problem and starts to work on it, if he is going to this is the stage he will. What will you affect is you worrying going to have on this? The answer is none at all, what is the affect of you supporting going to have on him? Perhaps prolonging the process.

I am sorry to be so blunt but all you can do is look after you, your life, your finances, your family, your own happiness and stop taking responsibility for his. If I was you I would find something to really occupy me for the rest of the week and make alternative arrangements for the travel to your Mum’s. I know it is difficult to take this approach but you need to protect your own state of mind, lily x

[lily]

Hi Logic, did you meet him in the end? Chances are somewhere in the back of his mind he knew he would end up watching/betting on the races but put his gym kit on to give him an alternative reason for leaving the house.

With no real signs of a commitment to seriously acknowledging his problem or taking steps toward change it is really difficult to see where you go from here.

When he ‘lost’ his wallet did you bail him out? Is it possible he had already gambled the money it and ‘lost’ it until he could get money elsewhere?

For a CG there really is no such thing as a good day at the bookies, they will normally stay there until they have spent every penny they have regardless of any ‘winnings’ they may of had along the way.

If you did met him I hope it was ok, I always found it very hard to relate to my CG when he was in gambling mode ie disengaged with quite a hard edge.

Try not to get sucked in too much and keep us updated, Lily x

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