[Jilly1]

Dear Velvet,
I am really sorry to hear this. You have given so many of us so much support and I feel we can do so little in return other than wish you a speedy recovery.
Jilly

[Jilly1]

It took me a long time to learn this but it’s so true.

[Jilly1]

Oh yes worried mama –

21) never apologise for anger

I was thinking about ‘drama’ – the highs and the lows of life on the roller coaster with a CG. You mentioned it mermaid and it set me thinking. All those arguments and then the making up, the storms and the calm, the shifting sands – it can make normal healthy relationships almost appear dull or boring. But that’s all it was – drama. Drama does not equal love or passion, it’s just what it is – drama and I prefer to see it on the stage or hear it on the radio ( anyone heard ‘the archers’ recently??) and not have it in my life anymore.
Jilly x

[Jilly1]

Dear Mermaid,

I know the feeling about being stuck in how to write down your thoughts and also how they just pour out at times and how that process helps you to make some sort of sense of what has happened in your life.

I often find myself saying – if I had been living a totally normal life and just woke up one morning and all this ‘stuff’ had happened I would run a mile or a hundred miles! But it isn’t like that is it? Things creep up on us – drip drip drip.

Love has a lot to answer for and one of the crazy but lovely things it does is make us temporarily blind to the failings of the one we love and then by the time normal perception kicks in we are all tangled up.

As you say, you were away from all your usual bearings and in a quite different culture for a long time.

You use the word ‘abuse’ and that is such a strong word although one that my daughter uses a great deal in relation to my ex. I had huge difficulty with seeing him in that light but actually financial abuse is a form of abuse and I think is rarely found in isolation. It is accompanied by lies and deceit etc etc.

Recovery is a long long process but with each week that goes by you will take some small imperceptible step forward even when you feel you are slipping back. With each step forward comes clarity and strength and recognition of your true self again which is probably the best gift.

The more I read here, the more I see common themes and feelings and thoughts and even a strange sort of guilt about how we got in this situation and how hard we find it to get out of it. Velvet always says you never need to apologise for anything here and that is so true and so important. So I put together a list of 20 things that everybody on this forum understands and that never need to be apologised for.

Never apologise here for:

1) Feeling confused
2) Needing help and advice for yourself and not feeling able to help others
3) Writing a lot
4) Writing a little
5) Writing a jumble of thoughts
6) Feeling your situation is trivial in comparison to others
7) Staying stuck in a situation
8) Loving someone
9) Having very dark thoughts about someone – and I do mean the bus running over them type darkness!
10) Taking a long time to ‘do’ anything – it can take years.
11) Enabling – you will not find one person here who has not enabled in some way.
12) Blinding yourself to the truth
13) Repeatedly asking the same question
14) Going into a lot of detail
15) Defending your CG
16) Feeling weak
17) Feeling guilty
18) Feeling depressed
19) Feeling happy even though your CG is going downhill in his life (a personal difficulty for me)
20) Finding yourself in this situation

I hope other people will add to this list and that here continues to be the wonderful supportive place it is for us to be able to express ourselves and never be judged.

Jilly

[Jilly1]

Dear Mermaid,
I had been looking out for you and wondering how things had been in Cuba and suddenly here you are. I am so sorry you have been through such an ordeal and whilst I try to avoid being too negative for the sake of all the people who are trying to recover from the effects of compulsive gambling, I have to say I am not surprised at how things turned out.

I expect you are still reeling from everything that happened and the awful behaviours you discovered. I remember when things were at their worst that it could all feel quite unreal and I think it is the minds way of coping sometimes. It takes a while to process everything.

Like Velvet, I understood your need to go back and try again.
I know every situation is unique but I try to help others (and myself) by sharing some of my experience – I eventually divorced my husband as you know and now I sit on the sidelines watching him continue to self destruct which is not a pleasant experience but a far better one than letting him take me down with him.

Over time you will rebuild yourself and see things with more clarity. As V says, the aftermath is hard – very hard. Use all the support you can find. I wrote on here quite a lot when things were very bad and it acted as a diary of events that eventually helped me to see patterns of behaviour that previously I was erasing from my mind because they were too painful to recall. I could see the repeated cycles of behaviour and the endless destructive loops I was caught up in.

You are probably having lots of negative thoughts about yourself so I will echo V and say you are amazing and will be even more so as you recover from this terrible experience.

I eventually found a wonderful person to have a relationship with, someone I could love and trust and really take care of – that person was me.

Jilly

[Jilly1]

Hi Caroline,
Sorry things are so tough for you just now. I just wanted to pick up on that question you asked about if you should tell your husband you are getting support here. I didn’t and for me I think that was the right decision. I needed to access some help that was completely separate from his influence. It was support for me and me only and I kept it that way.
Regardless of if they are good people or not, the addiction can make them highly manipulative particularly of their ‘enablers’. Like you I did start telling family and friends and it is only now that I can see that that doing those two things gave me a more objective pair of eyes so that I could see how behaviour that I was beginning to accept as normal was far from normal. Through their eyes I stepped out of the jungle and could see more clearly.
I only told a few initially but it was them that urged me to take steps to protect myself and the children.
I believed for far too long that my then husband could just change when he said he would. In reality his gambling was escalating and threatening the security of the family home. Other people could see the risks more clearly than me at that point.
I had a misplaced sense of duty/ obligation – I don’t know what you would call it but it led me to always defer to him in some way even when it was obvious that as the non addicted person with the family’s best interest at heart I was the better person to take the financial control.
I think however liberated women think they are these days there can still be an underlying culture or feeling that once married we still take a back seat and allow men to take control.
I did all the crying, worrying and shouting etc that I can see you going through. For me in the end the only thing that made any difference was when I took significant actions to protect myself and my family.
It was the hardest thing I ever did but I can see now it was also the best thing I ever did.
Everybody’s story is different and in some aspects mine was maybe a bit more extreme than most and I am not suggesting you have to end in divorce as I did.
If there is one consistent theme that emerges from this forum that should be shouted from the rooftops to all family and friends of people with addictions, it is take whatever steps are necessary to protect yourself, your family and your assets from the consequences of loving a person who has a compulsive gambling addiction. ( I am trying to avoid calling them CGs since I read somebody’s objection to that term on the forum and I do recognise that a person should not be referred to or defined by their addiction. They are so much more than that. I used the abbreviation more as a convenience)
You have already identified that you need to take action. Take that first action. You will feel much better than you can imagine at this point.
Jilly

[Jilly1]

Hi Caroline,
Sorry things are so tough for you just now. I just wanted to pick up on that question you asked about if you should tell your husband you are getting support here. I didn’t and for me I think that was the right decision. I needed to access some help that was completely separate from his influence. It was support for me and me only and I kept it that way.
Regardless of if they are good people or not, the addiction can make them highly manipulative particularly of their ‘enablers’. Like you I did start telling family and friends and it is only now that I can see that that doing those two things gave me a more objective pair of eyes so that I could see how behaviour that I was beginning to accept as normal was far from normal. Through their eyes I stepped out of the jungle and could see more clearly.
I only told a few initially but it was them that urged me to take steps to protect myself and the children.
I believed for far too long that my then husband could just change when he said he would. In reality his gambling was escalating and threatening the security of the family home. Other people could see the risks more clearly than me at that point.
I had a misplaced sense of duty/ obligation – I don’t know what you would call it but it led me to always defer to him in some way even when it was obvious that as the non addicted person with the family’s best interest at heart I was the better person to take the financial control.
I think however liberated women think they are these days there can still be an underlying culture or feeling that once married we still take a back seat and allow men to take control.
I did all the crying, worrying and shouting etc that I can see you going through. For me in the end the only thing that made any difference was when I took significant actions to protect myself and my family.
It was the hardest thing I ever did but I can see now it was also the best thing I ever did.
Everybody’s story is different and in some aspects mine was maybe a bit more extreme than most and I am not suggesting you have to end in divorce as I did.
If there is one consistent theme that emerges from this forum that should be shouted from the rooftops to all family and friends of people with addictions, it is take whatever steps are necessary to protect yourself, your family and your assets from the consequences of loving a person who has a compulsive gambling addiction. ( I am trying to avoid calling them CGs since I read somebody’s objection to that term on the forum and I do recognise that a person should not be referred to or defined by their addiction. They are so much more than that. I used the abbreviation more as a convenience)
You have already identified that you need to take action. Take that first action. You will feel much better than you can imagine at this point.
Jilly

[Jilly1]

This is abuse Caroline and yet I understand your last line – ‘I nearly believe he is right’
He is not right and his behaviour is certainly not right.
But I completely understand how you question yourself because you have had so many years of this treatment.
Watch the pattern, watch him come back all apologetic saying it will never happen again – until the next time.
Yes he will have a good side and a charming side and we start to become over grateful for the scraps of kindness they throw us after a bad episode.we want the pain to go away and the peace to be restored but unless he is dealing with his addiction it will not last.
Keep writing it down here until you feel strong enough to decide what actions you can take.
Step outside of this. Think of your best friend telling you this story. What would you say to them? Would you think it was your friends fault?
It is so hard when you are caught up in the middle of addiction.
I used to get angry and my friends would say ‘stay angry’ because they had seen me give in so many times to unacceptable behaviour even though I said time and time again that I could not take anymore.
I have noticed that with a bully, often when you do stand up to them they crumble. I agree with worried mama that when he is in this irrational mood it is best not to confront him but there should be consequences for his behaviour. It is a disgusting way to behave and there is no real excuse.
I think you should confide more in your friends. This is a very difficult thing to cope with on your own. Do not feel shame or that you have to cover up for him. Put your own needs first. I hid my situation for a long time and then the dam burst and I have only found kindness and support.
My situation went on so long that I lived a very abnormal life but it somehow became my ‘ normal’ and this abnormal version of normal can go on for years and in my case become more and more extreme.
Keep writing it all down here. I really believe it will help you to see how unacceptable his behaviour his and give you the strength to find a path through this.
I am angry for you. How dare he say such things in front of your children?
There is always hope.
Jilly

[Jilly1]

Dear Hope,
I know that feeling so well when all seems bleak and you look for positive words or comfort.
I can only talk about my situation and I am very aware everybody’s situation is unique and so is everyone’s solution.
I was in a similar situation to you 4 years into my marriage but it was another 24 before I got anywhere near resolving anything.
I wouldn’t want anybody else to suffer the consequences of gambling for that amount of time.
I think you are doing the right things. You have tried to take financial control (although I can see he has got round that and so did mine). You went with him for support but he did not stick at it. You told his family but got no support from them.
I understand the shame by association. I felt I ashamed and that I had to cover things up and compensate for my husband’s behaviour. It helped me whenever anybody said ‘this was not your fault’. So Hope….your husband being a compulsive gambler is not your fault and the fact that he has not stopped is not your fault either. Be sure to let that thought sink in.
I worried about what people would think too and eventually the neighbours heard everything as my daughter stood in the garden shouting out all to everybody who was passing!! I have risen above all that and mostly now I worry only about what I think and know to be true and that is quite liberating.
You have found yourself in a situation which you did not ask for or deserve.
I am saying that because in my experience CG’s can make everybody feel responsible for their problems but most of all the people closest to them.
There is a pattern to a cg’s behaviour and by writing down here or in a notebook what is happening you will start to recognise that pattern which I think will help you to deal with it more effectively. It sounds like you have some clarity and it does require you to step back or away a bit to get out of the fog. I would have glimpses of clarity but then as soon as I had verbal contact with my CG the fog would descend and I would lose all sense of direction.
Observe the patterns and the actions but try to let the words slide off you as they are easily said.
It is not always healthy to look back but when I do, I wish I had taken more proactive steps sooner. I had young children and felt a bit paralysed by that desire for them to grow up with 2 parents etc. I feel differently about that now, partly as a result of what my children have told me now they are grown up. I think for us it would have been better if I had taken a stronger clearer line. Even if it had meant leaving my husband while he sorted himself out. I think it may be better for the children to have had 1 strong parent than 2 who were sinking and struggling. It is not as though he will not still be around and involved and it is not as though you are saying it would be a final separation. You just want him to get himself sorted and then you would consider rebuilding your relationship.
It is probably a healthier solution for you all.
Children do settle quickly as a rule especially if they have a happy mum. It sounds as though your family will be very supportive of them too.
Generally addictive behaviour gets worse and my husbands did. It would have been better for us all if I had managed to take more protective action for myself earlier.
Something has to change otherwise you will experience more of the same and possibly worse.
You have an advantage over me in discovering this site much sooner in your journey. Read everything you can, talk to everyone you can including the compulsive gamblers over on the forum. They are a brilliant resource. Arm yourself with all the knowledge you can and your path will become clearer in time.
It is a really hard path to take and even now I still have very down days as a result of everything that happened but I never ever regret finally taking action.

Never ever give up hope.
Jilly

[Jilly1]

And a smile to send you on your way –

“Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I cannot accept,
and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had
to kill today because they pissed me off’

Will be thinking about you, especially 9 pm Tuesday when I reflect on the true serenity prayer and remember the people I have met here.
Jilly

[Jilly1]

Hi andi,
I was away with work for a few days and my work laptop has security settings that won’t let me get on this site. I wish the technology would understand that the focus is on ‘therapy’ not ‘gambling’ 🙂
You asked me how I knew about OCD. I had a very close school friend who had it although I didn’t pick up on it so much when we were young and it wasn’t as bad as it got after she had her son. It was linked to hygiene etc. she was also anorexic for a time. Her father was an alcoholic gambler which isn’t a good combination. She never told us that until much later in life, as is so often the way he was a respected member of the community and she felt she had to protect him. She has got better later in life and the OCD doesn’t have the same grip on her now. It really did restrict her life at times.
I struggled writing some stuff here at first. I seem to be a lot more relaxed about it now but can still have my moments of feeling I have exposed too much. The support group session is a very good place for saying things more privately that may be too difficult to write here. There is a high level of understanding, support and trust there.
I know the worried sick feeling. I still have the legacy of an anxiety thing…..which is why I am awake now writing this at 5am! I often wake with a feeling of dread/fear that it takes me a while to get under control. The anxiety almost feels like a physical pain in my chest. I long to feel at peace with the world and not fearful but maybe it is a bit of a habit now. I think about trying to get some help with it but am hoping that as circumstances change it may fade.
Well even if we have OCD, anxiety, quirks of personality or any other human failing it still does not mean that we have to allow a gambling addiction to control our lives. It is that same distorted way of thinking that enables things like domestic violence. Women – and it generally is women feel on some level they don’t deserve better treatment. But that’s a whole other area I guess.
I think I saw Velvet suggest on Eva’s site that she should do something nice for herself each day. I think that is great advice. It is treating ourselves well and also keeping something of ourselves separate from the CG. Maintaining our own identity is very important.
When I get to work I often treat myself to a delicious warm scone and coffee from the canteen and when it seems a bit extravagant I tell myself I’m worth it. It sets my day up nicely.
Ha I have just re read that….a scone extravagant!!! I’m sure you understand the thinking behind that…the compensating for their financial recklessness by restricting your own expenditure.
Madness.
Jilly

[Jilly1]

‘Lord and saviour’ – that has made me laugh so much.
Nothing wrong with a little OCD. I wish one of us had a touch more of that as then we would have a lovely shiny clean bathroom etc.
Exterior order is even more important when there is all this inner chaos and I can imagine that you are driven to get things under more control when stressed by the uncontrollable.
Everybody has faults but I divide them into acceptable normal ones and the deal breakers. The scales do not balance between the two.
Gambling is an addiction from which only the gambler benefits in terms of a buzz and a thrill and yet everybody suffers the negative consequences.
Yes, I was glad in some ways about the ‘floozy’ as that came out in the open in a rather disastrous way for my CG. He was suddenly exposed in a way that worked to my advantage. To be honest I may still have been stuck if that had not happened.
It gave me the high moral ground which I shouldn’t have needed but I was brought up as a Catholic for gods sake (until I discovered pre-marital sex) and something of that lingers however much I try to shake it off.
It’s ok to be honest here and admit our darker thoughts and yes I had almost hoped for this solution to set me free. That is when I was not hoping for other disasters to befall him. OK Ok I know It sounds bad but I also know I will not be the only person to have let my mind wonder over these potential solutions even though it’s somewhat shameful to admit to. I wanted it to be quick and painless!!!
I nearly deleted the above. I am of course glad that he is alive but that just shows you how trapped and desperate we sometimes feel.
I was a very trusting person when I got married. Sadly I am now Sherlock Holmes and would stop at nothing if I needed to get at the truth. I have searched pockets, phones, rummaged through card, opened post not addressed to me, followed him, spied etc etc. I do not like myself for it and wonder if I would ever be able to return to the trusting person I was. That is a sad thought that I may be changed forever for the worse.
Everybody’s situation is so unique and I recognise that the floozy really helped me on my way.
It didn’t work out if course but he remains addicted to her.
I got the divorce on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour which was gambling. I didn’t include the many other issues. That is between us. I just gave enough information to get technically past the threshold required. Although I am fairly open here, I didn’t want to go public with all my dirty linen and even went to a court out of this area.
Glad to be of comfort. Yes comfort, that is what I find here too.
Well like you I too have a load of domestic stuff to do (sadly not to your impeccable standards…..I have mental OCD but it never quite translates into the physical as I am quite lazy really). Have been on holiday so things have slid in my absence. Am away with work tonight so better get cracking.
Speak again hopefully. You have made me smile.
J

[Jilly1]

Hi Andi,
I just had to reply straight away to your response as I so recognised the not a manager type reference. That is so me. I can ‘do’ and certainly mentor and team build etc but I really balk at the nitty gritty micro management style. It just isn’t my way. If I had to treat someone that way I would think it was a mistake to have employed them!
You married an angel…well I married God! I am not exaggerating, in our community my CG was very revered. Even his best friend said to me that whenever he tells anybody about him…and it is pretty bad stuff he always ends up saying ‘but if you met him you would really like him’.
Until recently when I talked about him I would always end up saying ‘but he’s a really good person’. I don’t say that now but a bit of me still thinks it if I’m honest. It’s still a stumbling block for me.
He did a lot of good for people in his field of work and he is modest and unassuming.
My parents loved my CG and if he hadn’t had the very obvious gambling issue I think they probably would think the issues were mine. They are of the generation that was always impressed by ‘professionals’ and I guess know my faults better than most.
My CG didn’t try any sort of therapy/treatment because he also would say ‘its up to me’ and ‘nobody can help me, I have to do it’. I don’t think he wanted to stop really.
The violence was not to me initially it was by another family member on my ill father in law. It was the lowest point in the whole horrible saga and a major turning point as it was then that I looked for help. It is a terribly painful memory as I loved my f in l dearly. He has now died.
I couldn’t describe my marriage as dead although I can say I stopped loving. The respect thing was a big issue for me. I need to respect the man I love. My husband does not want the divorce and still loves me or so he says.
It has been very hard on the children who have known about the gambling problem for a long time. They got very mixed messages. I struggled to work things out so I can only imagine the confusion for them. I felt very strongly I should try to stay together and keep the show on the road. I did nearly leave round about the time of the 20k loan but it was my in laws who begged me to stay until the youngest had left school for the children’s sake.
There were other factors that played a part. We ran a family business at that time too. I did stay but subconsciously I was planning an exit strategy.
Then as I mentioned elsewhere, a few things all happened at the same time and I saw my chance and as Velvet said…I eventually kicked a creaking door wide open.
None of this happened overnight. I was trying to find if my original story was on here but I don’t think it is. I did find some posts going back to 2010 though!
The children’s reaction was total support. They are more eager for me to get things finalised and secure the roof over their heads than I am now. I can’t remember what it was exactly that somebody said but it was along the lines of better to be with one parent and happy than with two but with that undercurrent of tension. They still have 2 parents who love them.
Yes my marriage was long…29 years.
I don’t think anybody has questioned my decision except me.
We are amicable. That’s the word the courts like to use I think. My CG is still on the descent down to rock bottom. He talks about suicide sometimes. I still want to help but only from a place of safety. He is still gambling.
The final bit of the divorce is just going through now and I think that has made me more reflective again and I have needed to hold a few supporting hands again. It still is the hardest thing I have ever done. It’s sad, its scary, it’s emotional but I feel better than I have ever felt in terms of getting back in touch with how I want to live my life.
The bit of distance that the process has created has enabled me to see things more clearly. I can be astounded at what I tolerated but any partner of a CG will understand how that happens even though many of my friends have trouble getting their heads round that.
My relationship with my CG does not depend on me being married to him.
I have written more than I intended. It was the identifying with the inability to check every receipt that triggered my thoughts. I’m glad in some ways I am not that sort of person and I guess he would have found a way round it anyway.
Good luck with your struggle.
Jilly

[Jilly1]

Hi Andi,
I too was married to a CG for over 20 years, I had a catholic upbringing and gambling was and is completely alien to me. I didn’t come from a wealthy family and security was important to me.
I’m a worrier and fretted too. I would spend hours churning things over but not acting. Somewhere along the line I lost confidence in my own judgements. It may have been the lies or the false promises. It may have been having to face up to my own weaknesses and human failings. I don’t know but I became unable to make fairly simple decisions.
I had 4 children with my CG and the situation was getting worse and worse as each child was born. Gambling addiction generally does escalate and that was certainly my experience.
I wanted to believe the lies in order to make my marriage work and provide stability as I saw it then for my children….the alternative just seemed too awful to contemplate.
I didn’t want the sort of relationship where I had to control my husbands every move although I did have a few unsuccessful attempts at financial control. He would circumvent them and I would lose respect for him by feeling I had to control him.
What really caught my eye was the 20k you asked your in laws for. My husband asked his parents for the exact same amount and despite me telling them not to lend him it they did. They were afraid of the public shame or risk of their son going to prison for non payment of taxes. That loan in some ways marked the beginning of the end for us. It caused huge family tensions and even some violence.
It probably delayed him hitting rock bottom which in retrospect was not a good thing. It enabled him to carry on with his addiction within weeks of getting that loan.
I don’t want to be the voice of gloom here but I can only talk from my experience and hope that it will help you clarify your own thoughts and feelings. It does also help me to write as I am still working on my own recovery too.
You asked about success stories. Well how do you measure success?
There are CGs living in control of their addiction. If I had medals to give they would get the gold ones. They are outnumbered by those who still struggle with it. I have asked the question here and nobody knew anybody who had recovered from a significant addiction without some form of help e.g GA/residential help etc.
There are success stories for friends and family members. Some have supported their partner through a recovery programme and some have partners who still gamble but they themselves have embarked on their own recovery and protection. I fall in the latter group.
I rethought everything I previously believed. Yes, ideally children need 2 parents and ideally marriage is for better or worse and forgiveness is always an option. But really, where do all these doctrines come from?
I don’t want to start a huge religious debate but if there is a God or higher being I hope she is looking down at me and understanding that no one glove fits all – for me and in my individual circumstances, my children (admittedly grown up ish )are happier that I have taken control of a bad situation and led them and myself to safety and taken steps to divorce their CG father. Once I took the lead there was a collective sigh of relief from them and pretty much everyone else who knew my situation.
I feel able now to answer for my actions to anyone…including God!
Forgiveness is an option I am working on. I forgive myself for compromising myself for far too long.
I don’t know if anything I have said helps but it still helps me to write.
Jilly

[Jilly1]

Hi MM,
It is so difficult loving an addict. Reading through what you wrote I’m trying so hard to think about what made a difference for me. As I have said before everybody’s situation is unique and there are no easy answers but I do know one thing that changed. I took the focus off my husband and his problems. I decided he would survive somehow. I focused on myself…the only person we can really change. I kept coming across that phrase -‘we teach people how to treat us’. I had a good look at myself and decided I was trying too hard to be what others wanted. Even the cat had me wrapped round his little paw!
I also think people with addictions may target those they think they can manipulate although I accept it may not be as conscious as that.
So the changes I made were not just in relation to the CG. In my life. They were entwined with many other aspects of MY behaviour and thinking. I spent a huge amount of time trying to work out and understand the CG. There is no logic or sense to understand so it was a pretty futile task in someways. Also it is not our task. It is for the CG to address their problems and seek help. It somewhat sums my situation up that I was also trying to do HIS recovery work.
We need to work on ourselves. It is a process and doesn’t happen overnight. I don’t know when the point will come for you but for a number of us here something just clicked and we were able to see the situation in a more detached way. It was like a shield went around us – the barriers that V mentions and the Teflon felling I mentioned in the group which my CGs words just seem to slide off. I can see you working really hard on yourself and it will pay off eventually.
I can see you are going to feel cut off from support in Cuba but you are never alone once you have come here. I think that was the first feeling I remember when I found this site. I was not alone anymore. We will be thinking about you and here when you can access us.

Jilly x

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