[chalsteve]

Definitely on the zero steps forward 5 steps back bit.

One bit of forward progress was that on Monday night my wife had a phone call from our son, who was at work, with him saying he had gambled and lost his whole months salary in 30 minutes, having been paid the day before.

This is a step forward simply because he at least admitted to it immediately, rather than it coming out in a weeks time after the attitude ends in exclusion. It was on the phone, when he was still at work, so there was a safety zone between him and us at the time and he could always fall back on the “ive got to go, I’m at work” excuse when things got tough.

£1200 on slots in 30 minutes. 40p stake, then £1.20 stake, then £4 stake and a final crash and burn at £7.50 a go.

By the time he got home, there was the familiar mental barrier up and somehow, because he still had £700 in his account, but he owes us more than that so if we take that off him he has nothing to live on, then its now OUR fault he got no money.

We sit up until 2.00am talking and trying to get him to decide what to do about support, but getting nowhere. Eventually, we go to bed, I’ve got to be up at 6.45, he can and does sleep in until lunchtime.

That evening, things get much more involved but we still make little progress as the addiction is still firmly in control. We can see that, he obviously can’t. What he does know, is that if this continues then the same thing will happen, he will be kicked out. Another 2.00am finish.

The Wednesday, I’m at home and I find the time to click on the chat widget and speak to Harry. Excellent help and it gives a glimmer of hope that there is a way forward for him, if only he will take the steps himself. A lot of the stuff we are already doing, but it helps to hear that from an uninvolved person. Harry stresses the importance of consequences, there have to be consequences to him for what he did. If I give him cash to tide him over, then I might as well have used my money to do the gambling for him.

My son comes home, I know from talking to Harry that he is going to be there for another 40 minutes. I’d said I would try and get my son to chat to him.

My son hands me a list of things hes going to do, exclude himself from his gambling sites……wow that’s a list! his “aims” for the next 12 months without actually making any commitments. I asked him later what an aim was and he said it was something you hoped to achieve. Whats a commitment then? something you say you WILL do he says. So he knows the difference, and makes sure that he DOESNT make a commitment unless forced, which is OK then, because its not his commitment, he’s been forced to do it by his parents who make his life shit and don’t support him.

His list says get more help from elsewhere, but doesn’t say what/who/why/when? I hand him the laptop. I tell him that a guy who knows exactly what he feels like because he’s been there, done that, read the book, watched the film and worn the T shirt out, wants to speak to him.

I then sit there and watch him procrastinate, avaoid the issue, argue about anything and everything until 4.25, then theres only 5 minutes left, so its not worth it now.

His mantra of I’ll do it tomorrow, wins again. I have no idea at this moment of writing this, if he has made the connection today. I sincerely hope he has. He can’t beat this on his own and we can’t help him beat it as he has locked us out of his mind. The addict has won that battle, we are still trying to win the war though.

Yes he’s excluded himself from the gambling sites, and I’m putting Gamblock on his phone later – which he agreed to yesterday. He’s skirting around all of the peripherals whilst absolutely resolute in his determination to avoid the main one. Getting help.

In the end, after a long afternoon and into the evening of it, I really lost my temper with him. We had a proper shouting match. I’m not particularly proud of that but everything was/is all someone else’s fault.

We were supposed to go out and visit my wifes dad in hospital but that went by the board as things just went round in circles.

I’m going to try and make the F&F chat tonight and see what happens there. Rock bottom, for him, is not even close. There are going to be many more battles before this war even starts to be won.

[chalsteve]

Well it lasted less than a week, the shitty attitude, don’t give a damn about anyone else and shift the blame for anything and everything onto anyone else except himself.

Every single aspect of his life that can possibly be blamed on someone else is.

He says he doesn’t want to live at home, he hates it as we “control” him so he says.

Great, fine, don’t live at home where the cost of you living at home far exceeds the amount you pay in rent. Go and get you own place and stand on your own two feet. Go and find a job with prospects so that your salary will increase, there will be promotion prospects and you will be able to live comfortably in your own home.

Right,OK yes, I’ll do that tomorrow. I’ve got an important shoot em up game to play at this moment. I don’t want a second job to help with my income, as it will impact on my social life, which is almost entirely based around sitting in a room on my own and shooting people. Outside of my work, I converse with approximately zero people, including my parents who I currently live with.

So, he’s been back about a week and we hit the normal argument last night, which went on until well after 2.00am – well that ok as he doesn’t get up until the afternoon and I need to be at work by 7.00am.

So today he has his 4 weekly meeting with the psychiatric nurse which, in his mind, constitutes getting the help he needs. Rehab is a far too “extreme option” which he doesn’t need, as he’s got it under control himself. Well that will be an interesting conversation then, I’ve got it under control but I’ve gambled heavily since we last met. He doesn’t see that rehab ISN’T extreme it’s probably the best chance he has of beating this.

In an earlier, less volatile conversation, I asked him what he thought his “triggers” were to gamble. Boredom and anger were his two main answers. So why continuously play a shootem up game that you know makes you angry then? Ah, its not the game, according to him, its me or his mum moaning at him for playing, or stopping him from doing so that makes him angry. Ah yes, of course. Its someone else’s fault.

I think he’s gambled again already since he admitted to the last one. The behaviour pattern cycle tells me he has, as the anger and aggression that pours out of him at the moment has always been a sign that in a week or two, an admission will come and that will get it off his chest for a bit. He wont admit to it now, its probably too close to the actual event so its too raw and connected in his own mind still. Give it a week or so so that his mind can disconnect the impact it has had on him and we might get somewhere. I’m not sure that he will make it that long before being thrown out again. Our tolerance of him and his determination not to get help is massively diminished.

It’s entirely possible we are actually on the no steps forward and five steps back bit actually at the moment. Time will tell.

[chalsteve]

Hi Cathy
Well things are sort of stable at the moment. My son is back at home after about two/three weeks of being out of the home.

During that period we knew that something was amiss, because his whole attitude had taken a significant turn for the worse. Eventually the admission came, that he was not “dry gambling” or even losing £20, but £300 in two hours or so.

All the reasons why he told himself he didn’t need to go to GM or anywhere else, he had been living the lie for several weeks. We knew this, we just didn’t know how much was involved. I know its not about the amount of money.

So in coming home, HE committed to getting more/additional help. HE said he would, not me or my wife telling him had to. It doesn’t seem to be making much difference to him though, in his determination to do something about it. His brain has banished that to the darkened corners of forgotten about promises I think.

The problem he will find though, is that we have a much stronger resolve than we did previously. If he doesn’t do what he committed to, then he will be out of the house again, for an extended period of time. Its hard, but its the only way to get through to him.

He is still so resistant to doing what he says for himself. I don’t understand because I’ve never suffered from the addiction. Phone the helpline then, I say, and talk to people who have, who do understand you. Nope, doesn’t happen, because that would be admitting the problem exists. Yes, he says he knows he is an addict, but he says that because he thinks that gets us off his back.

So stable at the moment, but where we go from here I’m not sure yet!

Thank you for asking.

Cheers

[chalsteve]

Thank you for your input and comments. It helps to hear from others that we are not alone in this.

I do realise how hard this is for an addict to even think about beating it. Every day, every time you turn on the TV in the evening, the computer any time, your mobile etc etc, you are bombarded with adverts for slots, poker, football, horses etc etc.

The people/companies that make such vast profits from gambling salve their own consciences by contributing a tiny sum from their profits to the charities and organisations that support the addict, compared to the huge amount of money that they take every day from the people they profess to be helping. To my mind, their efforts are shambolic. It should be the easiest thing to do, on their websites, to block yourself and it should be the hardest thing to do on their websites to unblock yourself once you have done it.

Yes it has to come from the addict , the CG, but it seems to me that the casinos etc recognise the ability of the CG to forget past losses and use that to keep them playing.

[chalsteve]

I do read the other forum from time to time and see my son reflected in so many of the threads.

It is helpful to see the threads where people have had a positive and continuing life away from the addiction. It does provide the hope the one day that might be my son.

If what I have written has helped you then I am very pleased that it has. I cannot imagine the pain that is being experienced by so many other people in my position, in the families that try and support someone trying to beat it as much as the pain and difficulties of the CG themselves.

Good luck with your own recovery.

[chalsteve]

Thank you, Cathy, for bringing a bit of perspective back to it.

“He’s an addict just being an addict.”

The sad thing is how many of these threads read primarily the same!

[chalsteve]

Thank you Velvet. He applied the GMA in the immediate aftermath of an earlier binge. He was distraught, and appeared on the face of it, genuinely wanting to do something about it and recognised the need to do so.

I knew of GMA as I had come across the forums in my research about gambling addiction. I tend to do this. If I don’t know a lot about a subject, I will research it as thoroughly as I can. I don’t just read the first article on google and accept that as being the full extent of what I need to know. I will read extensively and look for differing views before making up my own mind.

So I had come across GMA in that process and I knew that GA had not been a successful road for him in earlier attempts. He seemed genuinely engaged with what GMA said after he completed the online application and the contact he had over the next few days.

However, it would seem to me, that the “window of opportunity”, when a CG is receptive to this is small. As the days pass, the mind says I’ve got it back under control, I don’t need to go away for 14 weeks. Three weeks after his major relapse, the mental trauma (to him) of the catastrophe that had befallen him was massively diminished in his own mind. I think I knew then that he wouldn’t go.

I’m making that simply as a comment, based upon my experience. That period immediately after a relapse is when the greatest opportunity lies. As always, there are no simple answers

[chalsteve]

So last night, we hit a new low – but that’s still probably not rock bottom.

For the past 10 days, my son has been living with his grandparents because we were not prepared to sustain him and his addiction anymore. Lets put this in perspective. Grandad is 86 and has dementia. He’s looked after by 78 year old Nan, who a few months back had run herself down so much in looking after him (Grandad) that she ended up in hospital with a major chest infection which required surgical intervention to drain fluid from the lungs. Two days ago, Grandad had a fall, which has put him in hospital.

Nan took my son in because she said she didn’t want him sleeping on the streets or in his car. He doesn’t have to. He’s got a job and a few mates left. But he went there and he immediately allowed her to run around after him. She became his new “facilitator” and there was an immediate deterioration in the relationship between my wife and her mum because of this. They have a very strong bond.

We had been round there, as a family, to try and talk to him about what he needed to do, which primarily involved getting him into a position where he got out into his own, self funded accommodation. Nan had her eyes opened at the way her grandson talked to his own Mum and Dad, and then when she asked a difficult question of her own, was on the brunt of that herself.

In the middle of the week, he disappeared for hours late at night. I saw the text message she sent at 2.30am asking where he was? He had a function to clear up after and was on his way, was the response. Add some more perspective. Grandad was at home at that time and wakes up at around 6/6.30am and needs to be cared for from then. If ever there was going to be a “guilty conscious moment for him when he finally put the needs of others ahead of himself, this would be it.

So last night, after we had visited Grandad in hospital, and had a vague message that he was out doing something entirely sensible, the alarms bells were ringing loud and clear. The same cycle of behaviour that he was throwing at his Grandparents was almost easier to spot than it was before.

So we drove past the pup he said he was at with his mate. No sign. With a heavy heart, I walked into the “arcade” zone in the town centre and was relieved to find him not in there. We headed for home, with one final check that we wanted to do. The casino. He was there with his mate. For the third time in three days with him. His mate, who I know and believe him, said that my son was not gambling, he was just sitting there watching. But he also said he wasn’t there the night that my son was out until well after 2.30am and my son, by then, had already said to us that that’s where he had been.

His mate was visibly shocked at the change in behaviour and the verbal abuse dished out by my son. “Sticks and stones can break my bones…..” etc but its hard to hear your son say his parents are a couple of c##ts in front of someone you know very well.

This is someone who was offered a place at GM, and turned it down because he says he can control it and cure it himself. I don’t know where we go from here, but he is now out of his Grandparents as well. Perhaps one or two good things will come out of this. His mate now knows the extent of his problem and there is no way that he will take him down to the casino again. Last night may even affect the way his mate himself actually views his own gambling levels.

I can see no end to this for my son. He has not got the slightest desire to do something about it and the levels of abuse are ratcheting up all the time. Of course, its OUR fault for coming out to look for him. Its OUR fault that because we found him where we did, his cushy number at Nan’s has just gone as well. Its OUR fault that his mate now knows some – still not all – of the levels that he has fallen to in the past.

No remorse, no guilt, not even the slightest “sorry” for the web of lies he had spun to his Nan who he spoke to on the phone to her. There’s still a long drop to the bottom.

[chalsteve]

Thank you Velvet

The context of “has to get a new job” is simply that his current one is coming to an end. He knows he won’t actually have one at all by January. However, the desire and motivation to go and find another one is the one impacted by his “need”.

His “needs” remain focused on the desire to gamble/game still. I would say that his desire to game is stronger at the moment than his desire to gamble and he doesn’t see that there is an addiction there either. It is my opinion that the two are intertwined, the flicking/flashing of the screen on the shoot em up game is stimulating the same bits of the brain that the slots/gambling does.

Once underway, nothing else matters. If the opportunity is there, then he could play it for 10/12 hours. Even that has a cost, they always need the next weapon, the next smartbomb, that no-one else has, so they click on the icon on the screen and its bought and the bank card is automatically debited. Then suddenly everyone has it and the next new one appears. Here we go again. Its no different at all, its simply a means of extracting a continuous drip of cash.

I can’t live his life for him, I know, but I’m aghast and fearful at what his life is going to be and where its going to take him.

[chalsteve]

Thank you.

That’s an interesting thought, I’ve always understood that he has to reach rock bottom to start the climb back up, but I’ve not applied the same principle to my wife and I.

In that context, my wife reached it some time ago. I’m there now. I don’t want to just “give in” and go back to same old same old. Something, my son, has to change.

I’ve told him that HE has to set the criteria, he has to make the commitment to himself as well as us before we can move forwards. If we set it, then we are just controlling his life he says. OK, you control it. You do it. You set the standards. We will then make OUR choice if that’s a strong enough resolution to start to repair the relationship. He wants to know the outcome BEFORE he makes the commitment – so he can judge in his mind whether or not its worth making the effort.

Change is being forced upon him in his life now, he has to find a new job in the next few months, so he wont have any choice in that matter, he’s got to make an effort in expectation of a good outcome, without the guarantee of it happening.

[chalsteve]

I’m not sure if I’ll be home and able to do so at that time. I’ll do my best

Hope you are OK!!

[chalsteve]

We don’t expect any miracle cure from this, we’ve researched enough about it to understand that my son can have the appearance of absolute normality with all those around him who don’t actually know about the problem or even those who know the problem but don’t realise the extent. The impact, other than on my son and his immediate family, is negligible.

He believes he can control it himself. Well, he can. Until he relapses. Then we start all over again. First few days there is the remorse, the guilt and the depression at having lost it all again. There is a determination that help is needed and this needs to be confronted.

Then, a few days pass, and things don’t seem quite so bad and the memory of the loss is already fading. There is less of an inclination to do something about it, seek outside help, because its back under control, I can do this myself. In this period though, there is more “normal” social interaction with the rest of the family, a begrudging willingness to help out with the daily chore of living in a house where food and drink miraculously keep appearing in the fridges and cooked dinners hit the table on a regular basis.

Then things start to deteriorate. Now we return back to the resentment of his parents, because we are stopping him from doing the things he wants to do.

If he had carte blanche, he would shoot people on the internet from the moment he got up to the moment he had to go to work. He would be 10/15 minutes late for work almost all of the time, as he just needs to finish this game and then the next one. When he gets back, it would be straight into his room, headphones on and play it until 4.00am.

That’s been banned in our house for months now. He can’t play it at all, but the impact of that is that the resentment levels are cranked high as we are treating him like a child he says. Well, yes we are, because he is behaving like one.

The only mechanism we have for not having shouted/screamed expletives reverberating through the house, is to ban him from playing it. We also have banned him from vaping in the house. Now whilst I accept it might well be better than the smoking he did before that, he has the ultra powerful things that produce smoke like an out of control field fire. They smell sickly and unpleasant to us, so we simply said you smoke it outside.

Given the ability of an addict to lie, you would probably understand the number of times that we would come home to find him smoking it in his room. Ask the simple question, would you do that at work? No. Work instructions are sacrosant.

Parents are not respected and can sod off.

So our only ability to reign in a 25 year old addict, is to remove the things that he wants to do to get him to comply with the really basic, simply rules of the house. Keep your room clean and tidy. Don’t smoke or vape in the house. Help out with the daily chores. For that, he gets the run of the house, meals, drinks, bed, etc etc. all for £150 a month rent which is about 1/10th of his take home pay. The room is a sh*thole, the bed gets changed about once a month after someone goes ballistic at him (usually his mum), there is months of crap on the floor, unopened post, and the dishwasher gets emptied if you are lucky.

So the only thing left in the armoury to try and get a correction in the behaviour to us, is to remove the access to the house completely. We are on Day 4 of this now. Its been overnight a few times in the past, and on one of those excluded nights, he sat in his car and lost a fortune in a few hours, before calling us on the verge of a breakdown it seemed. Maybe rock bottom had been hit and there was a way forward. No. Go back to the start of paragraph 2 and read it all over again.

So we worry that by excluding him from the house that we might provoke a new episode of gambling, but it seems to us that the only way to get a change in his behaviour is to deny him what he wants until he complies, but that also just cranks up the resentment once he has returned again. Its a never ending circle that we cannot see any way of breaking, because we can’t break it. Only he can. He wants everything for nothing. He will openly say he doesn’t want to live at home, but he wont move out and rent a room in a shared house, he wants the living standards he has at home without having to lift a finger to do it himself. I’ve suggested a second job to earn more money so he can afford it. Why should he do that?? Just work all the time? Where’s the fun in that?

He sees my response of where’s the fun in your life at the moment as being a snide, negative remark rather than the objective bit of criticism that it is.

The bottom line for us is that we cannot stand watching him ruin his life. We have watched it deteriorate over the past 10 years and the last 5 have been ruinous to our relationship with him. If he is going to continue to game and gamble, he has to do it elsewhere. He has to pay his own way and take responsibility for his own life.

By letting him live at home for a pittance, we effectively subsidise his gambling ourselves. We will support him all the way if and when he wants to get help. I said to him I would do his job for him (and I could and would do) whilst he went to GM for three months, so he still had a job to come back to when he finished there. Still not enough.

I see my mates having a laugh and a joke with their adult sons. They can go down the pub and have a beer, or just chat about everyday rubbish and banter. I’m envious of them. Deeply so.

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